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> A search for “are all Muslims terrorists?” for example leaves little to the imagination about what the searcher really thinks. Searches for “I hate Muslims” a

> A search for “are all Muslims terrorists?” for example leaves little to the imagination about what the searcher really thinks. Searches for “I hate Muslims” are even clearer. Is it actually clear what the searcher thinks? I enter phrases I'm searching for into Google. I don't just type my current thoughts in there to let Google know.

logicallee 11y ago
I think both "are all Muslims terrorists" and "I hate Muslims" are perfectly reasonable searches when hearing that someone has decided to exercise free speech, expressing a political viewpoint, simultaneously with deciding to commit heinous, psychopathic, immoral and of course illegal murder - when this person personally expresses that their religious views tie these unrelated things together. In response to "are all Muslims terrorists" I would expect to get an informative page detailing that no, obviously they are not (I know muslims personally who are as western, educated, and civilized as any of my Christian friends) while also explaining why some muslims or muslim countries are uncivilized places that have not been exposed to basic things humanity figured out during the enlightenment. (In these places Apostasy is a crime punishable by death, for example.) So it's a reasonable question with a reasonable answer. The search "I hate muslims" is also quite reasonable, and I would expect a reasonable search result to be about how to deal with personal bigotry in the face of a mixed population. For example, if a shop owner has 17-30 cases of armed robbery occurring every year, and all of them are by African-Americans, I might expect this person to search for "I hate blacks" and get an informative page about why the fact that some African-Americans are thugs is no reason to generalize and be bigotted. At the end of the day, the shop owner's next hire might be an African-American, and one who wouldn't think of armed robbery any more than the HN readership does. Here possibly I'm being hopelessly optimistic. I do think it's up to Google to return search results that are not hate-speech based. In the United STates with good reason, blind hatred advocating violence against a group is not protected political speech - you couldn't just publish a book advocating lynching every (minority group). But that doesn't extend to the whole of the Internet, and people can say whatever bigoted stuff they want. That doesn't mean search engines need to return those pages. They can return reasonable pages instead.
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  > In response to "are all Muslims terrorists" I would expect to get an informative page detailing that no, obviously they are not (I know muslims personally who are as western, educated, and civilized as any of my Christian friends) while also explaining why some muslims or muslim countries are uncivilized places that have not been exposed to basic things humanity figured out during the enlightenment. (In these places Apostasy is a crime punishable by death, for example.) Your search results there will already have been filtered by google to things you agree with based on your previous search history. So if you search for that kind of thing a lot, you'll likely see a lot of news items about Trump and rants by angry people talking about how all muslims are indeed terrorists. Just one of the many ways our modern technology works to create divisions between us, all based on the best of (marketing) intentions.
  - logicallee 11y ago
    you can see unfiltered search results at google.com/custom (an old page that's still up.) I often find it useful. EDIT: I see your response but I'm confused. did you go to http://www.google.com/custom http://www.google.com/custom ? there's no signin or anything like that, it's just an old page that's still up, from when they were cobranding the page or something.
    - throwaway7767 11y ago
      Looks like you need a google account to use it. Too bad, it sounded really useful. EDIT in response to your edit: That page redirects to https://cse.google.com/cse/ https://cse.google.com/cse/ for me, which requires a sign-in. There's a search box there, which only searches under google-owned domains, which I guess is not what you're talking about. Might be a regional thing.
      - logicallee 11y ago
        hmmm, maybe regional, or maybe your cookies or IP or something? Try my link for example here[1] to see how it normally looks. You could try accessing it via a proxy - here's one. [2] (I just googled "free online proxy".) To be fair, the link I posted is obviously a fluke - it could be removed at any point. it doesn't even have the current branding. But it's very useful! [1] https://www.browserling.com/ https://www.browserling.com/ [2] https://www.kproxy.com/ https://www.kproxy.com/ (after entering the URL then on the result page there's a popup banner you click to hide, it happens to cover the input field. click at the far left of the banner to hide it.)
rl3 11y ago
>Is it actually clear what the searcher thinks? Of course it is. Otherwise there would be little basis for the article. It's not like these otherwise repulsive phrases may be (in part) the result of ironic or dark humor, or that they were searched out of curiosity—perhaps even concern. That might imply searches have some sort of greater context beyond a mere string of text. /s
JulianMorrison 11y ago
Let's say that it makes it clear which way the person is leaning. You've bought into nine tenths of the paradigm and are assuming its premises to direct your questioning attention. Despite being a bias this feels like nothing, because your beliefs about reality are aligned with the paradigm. You can only feel the bias when your beliefs are very much not aligned with the paradigm. "Are all white people racists?" You can feel that one, can't you?
- rl3 11y ago
  >Let's say that it makes it clear which way the person is leaning. Unless they're searching those phrases for a myriad of other reasons that have nothing to do with that person being a racist. In which case, your argument kind of falls apart. >"Are all white people racists?" You can feel that one, can't you? I'm not sure if that comment is more presumptuous than it is condescending, or vice versa.
- slavik81 11y ago
  Not at all. Consider the same sort of thing with a different topic. The search "spy on Americans" is also an action stated as a search, but probably represents someone wanting information about people who spy on Americans. The searches phrased as questions strike me as likely to have a more unified intent, but even then there may be a lot of variation.

logicallee 11y ago

I think both "are all Muslims terrorists" and "I hate Muslims" are perfectly reasonable searches when hearing that someone has decided to exercise free speech, expressing a political viewpoint, simultaneously with deciding to commit heinous, psychopathic, immoral and of course illegal murder - when this person personally expresses that their religious views tie these unrelated things together. In response to "are all Muslims terrorists" I would expect to get an informative page detailing that no, obviously they are not (I know muslims personally who are as western, educated, and civilized as any of my Christian friends) while also explaining why some muslims or muslim countries are uncivilized places that have not been exposed to basic things humanity figured out during the enlightenment. (In these places Apostasy is a crime punishable by death, for example.) So it's a reasonable question with a reasonable answer. The search "I hate muslims" is also quite reasonable, and I would expect a reasonable search result to be about how to deal with personal bigotry in the face of a mixed population. For example, if a shop owner has 17-30 cases of armed robbery occurring every year, and all of them are by African-Americans, I might expect this person to search for "I hate blacks" and get an informative page about why the fact that some African-Americans are thugs is no reason to generalize and be bigotted. At the end of the day, the shop owner's next hire might be an African-American, and one who wouldn't think of armed robbery any more than the HN readership does. Here possibly I'm being hopelessly optimistic. I do think it's up to Google to return search results that are not hate-speech based. In the United STates with good reason, blind hatred advocating violence against a group is not protected political speech - you couldn't just publish a book advocating lynching every (minority group). But that doesn't extend to the whole of the Internet, and people can say whatever bigoted stuff they want. That doesn't mean search engines need to return those pages. They can return reasonable pages instead.

throwaway7767 11y ago
> In response to "are all Muslims terrorists" I would expect to get an informative page detailing that no, obviously they are not (I know muslims personally who are as western, educated, and civilized as any of my Christian friends) while also explaining why some muslims or muslim countries are uncivilized places that have not been exposed to basic things humanity figured out during the enlightenment. (In these places Apostasy is a crime punishable by death, for example.) Your search results there will already have been filtered by google to things you agree with based on your previous search history. So if you search for that kind of thing a lot, you'll likely see a lot of news items about Trump and rants by angry people talking about how all muslims are indeed terrorists. Just one of the many ways our modern technology works to create divisions between us, all based on the best of (marketing) intentions.
- logicallee 11y ago
  you can see unfiltered search results at google.com/custom (an old page that's still up.) I often find it useful. EDIT: I see your response but I'm confused. did you go to http://www.google.com/custom http://www.google.com/custom ? there's no signin or anything like that, it's just an old page that's still up, from when they were cobranding the page or something.
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
    Looks like you need a google account to use it. Too bad, it sounded really useful. EDIT in response to your edit: That page redirects to https://cse.google.com/cse/ https://cse.google.com/cse/ for me, which requires a sign-in. There's a search box there, which only searches under google-owned domains, which I guess is not what you're talking about. Might be a regional thing.
    - logicallee 11y ago
      hmmm, maybe regional, or maybe your cookies or IP or something? Try my link for example here[1] to see how it normally looks. You could try accessing it via a proxy - here's one. [2] (I just googled "free online proxy".) To be fair, the link I posted is obviously a fluke - it could be removed at any point. it doesn't even have the current branding. But it's very useful! [1] https://www.browserling.com/ https://www.browserling.com/ [2] https://www.kproxy.com/ https://www.kproxy.com/ (after entering the URL then on the result page there's a popup banner you click to hide, it happens to cover the input field. click at the far left of the banner to hide it.)

rl3 11y ago

>Is it actually clear what the searcher thinks? Of course it is. Otherwise there would be little basis for the article. It's not like these otherwise repulsive phrases may be (in part) the result of ironic or dark humor, or that they were searched out of curiosity—perhaps even concern. That might imply searches have some sort of greater context beyond a mere string of text. /s

JulianMorrison 11y ago

Let's say that it makes it clear which way the person is leaning. You've bought into nine tenths of the paradigm and are assuming its premises to direct your questioning attention. Despite being a bias this feels like nothing, because your beliefs about reality are aligned with the paradigm. You can only feel the bias when your beliefs are very much not aligned with the paradigm. "Are all white people racists?" You can feel that one, can't you?

rl3 11y ago
>Let's say that it makes it clear which way the person is leaning. Unless they're searching those phrases for a myriad of other reasons that have nothing to do with that person being a racist. In which case, your argument kind of falls apart. >"Are all white people racists?" You can feel that one, can't you? I'm not sure if that comment is more presumptuous than it is condescending, or vice versa.
slavik81 11y ago
Not at all. Consider the same sort of thing with a different topic. The search "spy on Americans" is also an action stated as a search, but probably represents someone wanting information about people who spy on Americans. The searches phrased as questions strike me as likely to have a more unified intent, but even then there may be a lot of variation.