9 ms·

I don't want to live in a society where every car becomes a tool of law enforcement.

zkhalique 11y ago
Unfortunately, that's where things are headed regardless. More cameras, cheaper sensors, big data. Every intersection will eventually give you a red light ticket. Etc etc.
- pzone 11y ago
  I would hope that my autonomous vehicle comes with a "don't run red lights" option
shkkmo 11y ago
I want to live in a world where law enforcement isn't so pre-occupied dealing with traffic violations.
- avn2109 11y ago
  That is equivalent to wanting to live in a world wherein local government is adequately funded through ordinary taxation, such that it doesn't resort to highway shakedowns of the people for its operating revenue.
  - bjelkeman-again 11y ago
    I actually live in such a country. Most (all?) of northern Europe is well functioning that way. It can work.
    - pc86 11y ago
      What's your effective tax rate? I'm being somewhat facetious, but there are several ways to fund local governments, including but not limited to: A. Tax the people directly based on $ASSET (usually income, or property, or a combination of the two). B. Lower direct taxes as well as state and federal grants, and fines from enforcement. As someone who doesn't necessarily mind sending a few dimes on the dollar to the government, and doesn't speed often enough or at such egregious speeds that I'm subject to hyperbolic "highway shakedowns," I kind of prefer B to A because it results in a lower effective tax rate for me.
      - bjelkeman-again 11y ago
        Sweden's effective tax rate is 37% on a salary of $100k (2012). UK is about 32%, US about 27% (all read from a graph) [1]. In Sweden this extra tax provides free schooling up to and including university (you even get paid going to higher education US$300+/month in grants), low cost health care with a cost ceiling (US$130/year), affordable child care, social security net, local government owned and (well) managed infrastructure (power, water, fibre, roads, etc.) Our local government is funded through direct taxation. My local government tax rate is 30.2%. Not sure it tells the whole story though. VAT is not included in effective tax rate AFAIK (as defined in the Economist article). [1] http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4 http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4
  - pc86 11y ago
    I'm pretty sure "highway shakedowns" as you put it only happen when you are grossly disobeyed clearly posted speed limits, rolling through stop signs, or trying to squeeze through that yellow light so you can get to work two minutes sooner.
- pzone 11y ago
  Sounds like autonomous cars are for you!
rdtsc 11y ago
It's almost there. There are license plates readers everywhere, toll booths record your times and toll gates use. Also note, it doesn't have to be a "government" thing, where you'd expect some protection (at least on paper). It can be a completely private affair between the car makers and insurnace companies. In fact it is already almost there and it is called CLUE ( https://www.privacyrights.org/clue-and-you-how-insurers-size-you https://www.privacyrights.org/clue-and-you-how-insurers-size... ) -- a database used by insurance companies to evaluate indivicuals and record the claims they've made in the past. Feed info from these self-driving cars into them and you can't even claim any privacy or constitutional rights were violated.
- pc86 11y ago
  On my state's main toll road (75 mph speed limit) it is common to be going 90 in the right lane and have most people zip past you like you're standing still. The design of the road only allows one or two places for speed enforcement every 10-15 miles or so. I've long wondered why the toll authority does not simply do the math on entry and exit and send citations to the top 5-10% of speeders. It's generate many thousands of dollars in revenue for sure.
avn2109 11y ago
Too late. Way too late. Bottlenecking transportation is the oldest law enforcement trick in the book. Why do you think they make you tell them all your info during registration, put identifying plates on your vehicle, compile databases of VIN numbers, get access to OnStar tracking computers, etc.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
And I don't want to live in a society where it's a customary for people to take selfish advantage of AI drivers, or any other system for that matter. Maybe it's time to split up societies? Some people seem to value absolute freedom to do anything (and freedom from consequences). Others prefer having things actually work and be nice for everyone.
shpx 11y ago
Some lady did a hit and run, and her new Ford called the police [0]. There are surveillance cameras in the park by my house. I've given up, fighting this is like trying to stop a tsunami. [0] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/florida-woman-arrested-hit-and-run-car-calls-police http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/florida-wo...
- pc86 11y ago
  Fighting what? Her Ford "called the police" in that it automatically reported a collision had taken place. You make it sound like it sent a message saying "my owner committed a crime, go get her" which is not what happened. Are you saying the world would be better off if she had gotten away with a hit and run?
sanoli 11y ago
I want to live in a society where less and less people die by reckless driving - make that 'less and less people die by automobile, period'. As far as I can see, only technology will do that, education being the other means but a much less reliable one. If law enforcement only gets involved when a crime is comitted, that's fine by me.

Unfortunately, that's where things are headed regardless. More cameras, cheaper sensors, big data. Every intersection will eventually give you a red light ticket. Etc etc.

pzone 11y ago
I would hope that my autonomous vehicle comes with a "don't run red lights" option

shkkmo 11y ago

I want to live in a world where law enforcement isn't so pre-occupied dealing with traffic violations.

avn2109 11y ago
That is equivalent to wanting to live in a world wherein local government is adequately funded through ordinary taxation, such that it doesn't resort to highway shakedowns of the people for its operating revenue.
- bjelkeman-again 11y ago
  I actually live in such a country. Most (all?) of northern Europe is well functioning that way. It can work.
  - pc86 11y ago
    What's your effective tax rate? I'm being somewhat facetious, but there are several ways to fund local governments, including but not limited to: A. Tax the people directly based on $ASSET (usually income, or property, or a combination of the two). B. Lower direct taxes as well as state and federal grants, and fines from enforcement. As someone who doesn't necessarily mind sending a few dimes on the dollar to the government, and doesn't speed often enough or at such egregious speeds that I'm subject to hyperbolic "highway shakedowns," I kind of prefer B to A because it results in a lower effective tax rate for me.
    - bjelkeman-again 11y ago
      Sweden's effective tax rate is 37% on a salary of $100k (2012). UK is about 32%, US about 27% (all read from a graph) [1]. In Sweden this extra tax provides free schooling up to and including university (you even get paid going to higher education US$300+/month in grants), low cost health care with a cost ceiling (US$130/year), affordable child care, social security net, local government owned and (well) managed infrastructure (power, water, fibre, roads, etc.) Our local government is funded through direct taxation. My local government tax rate is 30.2%. Not sure it tells the whole story though. VAT is not included in effective tax rate AFAIK (as defined in the Economist article). [1] http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4 http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4
- pc86 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure "highway shakedowns" as you put it only happen when you are grossly disobeyed clearly posted speed limits, rolling through stop signs, or trying to squeeze through that yellow light so you can get to work two minutes sooner.
pzone 11y ago
Sounds like autonomous cars are for you!

rdtsc 11y ago

It's almost there. There are license plates readers everywhere, toll booths record your times and toll gates use. Also note, it doesn't have to be a "government" thing, where you'd expect some protection (at least on paper). It can be a completely private affair between the car makers and insurnace companies. In fact it is already almost there and it is called CLUE ( https://www.privacyrights.org/clue-and-you-how-insurers-size-you https://www.privacyrights.org/clue-and-you-how-insurers-size... ) -- a database used by insurance companies to evaluate indivicuals and record the claims they've made in the past. Feed info from these self-driving cars into them and you can't even claim any privacy or constitutional rights were violated.

pc86 11y ago
On my state's main toll road (75 mph speed limit) it is common to be going 90 in the right lane and have most people zip past you like you're standing still. The design of the road only allows one or two places for speed enforcement every 10-15 miles or so. I've long wondered why the toll authority does not simply do the math on entry and exit and send citations to the top 5-10% of speeders. It's generate many thousands of dollars in revenue for sure.

avn2109 11y ago

Too late. Way too late. Bottlenecking transportation is the oldest law enforcement trick in the book. Why do you think they make you tell them all your info during registration, put identifying plates on your vehicle, compile databases of VIN numbers, get access to OnStar tracking computers, etc.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

And I don't want to live in a society where it's a customary for people to take selfish advantage of AI drivers, or any other system for that matter. Maybe it's time to split up societies? Some people seem to value absolute freedom to do anything (and freedom from consequences). Others prefer having things actually work and be nice for everyone.

shpx 11y ago

Some lady did a hit and run, and her new Ford called the police [0]. There are surveillance cameras in the park by my house. I've given up, fighting this is like trying to stop a tsunami. [0] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/florida-woman-arrested-hit-and-run-car-calls-police http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/florida-wo...

pc86 11y ago
Fighting what? Her Ford "called the police" in that it automatically reported a collision had taken place. You make it sound like it sent a message saying "my owner committed a crime, go get her" which is not what happened. Are you saying the world would be better off if she had gotten away with a hit and run?

sanoli 11y ago

I want to live in a society where less and less people die by reckless driving - make that 'less and less people die by automobile, period'. As far as I can see, only technology will do that, education being the other means but a much less reliable one. If law enforcement only gets involved when a crime is comitted, that's fine by me.