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ArchLinux ARM has packages for OwnCloud. Unfortunately, the software itself is a PHP spaghetti monster from hell (is there any other kind?) that doesn't really

by Aeolos 11y ago

ArchLinux ARM has packages for OwnCloud. Unfortunately, the software itself is a PHP spaghetti monster from hell (is there any other kind?) that doesn't really scale. Even worse, the RPi is extremely limited in I/O capabilities, with only a single USB2 hub shared between the 100Mbit ethernet and 4x USB2 connections (including your harddrive.) This means that any file transfer is limited to 10-11 MB/s in the best case... We can only hope that a RPi3 will with USB3 support will materialize before 2020. I am running a RPi2 as a home server / NAS / VPN / seedbox, and it works - as long as you set your expectations right. Finally, note that the RPi kernel stack is always slightly outdated due to out-of-tree patches. Most ARM SOCs suffer from this problem, and the RPi foundation is slowly taking steps to fix that after years of user pressure. However, I have decided to switch to a low-power x86 CPU with a fully open linux stack for my future home server needs, until ARM decides to fix their driver mess.

Carrok 11y ago
> Unfortunately, the software itself is a PHP spaghetti monster from hell (is there any other kind?) that doesn't really scale. And here you go invalidating your whole post with some unnecessary inflammatory B.S. Sure, I mean Facebook runs on PHP, but we all know it just doesn't scale and can't be written cleanly.
- gcommer 11y ago
  On the other hand, Facebook being built on PHP meant they eventually felt the need to dedicate significant engineering time into building their own PHP VM (HHVM) along with their own spin-off of the PHP language (Hack) to get it to work for them.
  - thejosh 11y ago
    Yeah, and they could have switched to any language they wanted, but they stuck with PHP and created HHVM (they most likely run other languages as well). They also felt the need to create other open source things you have had heard of, such as react.
    - bigiain 11y ago
      Heh - it's funny you mention React there, in the context of sticking with PHP instead of jumping ship to some more appropriate technology: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mark-zuckerberg-our-biggest-mistake-with-mobile-was-betting-too-much-on-html5/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mark-zuckerberg-our-biggest... It was only 4 years ago when creating HTML5 based hybrid mobile apps was "the biggest mistake Facebook ever made", and it was all about "native apps" for iOS and Android... Now React and React Native are "the new hotness"...
      - thejosh 11y ago
        Or maybe the devices are "good enough" now to actually run these sorts of things? But yes, it is a circle of life.
  - mappu 11y ago
    Upstream PHP has gained to about the same speed, and added many of the features (e.g. gradual strict typing and generators). I don't think Facebook would have made the same decision today.
    - LukasReschke 11y ago
      We also have some nice graphs about the speed of PHP 7: https://owncloud.org/blog/php-7-is-here-and-owncloud-is-ready/ https://owncloud.org/blog/php-7-is-here-and-owncloud-is-read...
- izacus 11y ago
  Well, having used and tried to fix OwnCloud, it IS spaghetti monster from hell that randomly calls out to bash/perl/etc. scripts and happily corrupts non-UTF8 filenames at times (e.g. if you're on a NAS that doesn't have locales setup the same way as the developres) and does other horrible things with data.
  - jospoortvliet 11y ago
    Seriously, that's fud. Ok, you're running a NAS so I bet you have hopelessly outdated software on there and it's a miracle anything runs on it, including ownCloud. We probably shouldn't go through so much trouble making it run on any platform we can make it run on. But ownCloud doesn't use bash, doesn't use perl - it is all PHP, javascript, html and CSS. If your NAS build does weird stuff to work around the limitations of your NAS - well, that's one reason we're trying to build something new...
LukasReschke 11y ago
> that doesn't really scale There are deployments out there with a ton of users. For example Sciebo: https://owncloud.com/customer/sciebo/ https://owncloud.com/customer/sciebo/ / http://sciebo.de/projekt/index.html http://sciebo.de/projekt/index.html

by Aeolos 11y ago

Carrok 11y ago

> Unfortunately, the software itself is a PHP spaghetti monster from hell (is there any other kind?) that doesn't really scale. And here you go invalidating your whole post with some unnecessary inflammatory B.S. Sure, I mean Facebook runs on PHP, but we all know it just doesn't scale and can't be written cleanly.

gcommer 11y ago
On the other hand, Facebook being built on PHP meant they eventually felt the need to dedicate significant engineering time into building their own PHP VM (HHVM) along with their own spin-off of the PHP language (Hack) to get it to work for them.
- thejosh 11y ago
  Yeah, and they could have switched to any language they wanted, but they stuck with PHP and created HHVM (they most likely run other languages as well). They also felt the need to create other open source things you have had heard of, such as react.
  - bigiain 11y ago
    Heh - it's funny you mention React there, in the context of sticking with PHP instead of jumping ship to some more appropriate technology: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mark-zuckerberg-our-biggest-mistake-with-mobile-was-betting-too-much-on-html5/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mark-zuckerberg-our-biggest... It was only 4 years ago when creating HTML5 based hybrid mobile apps was "the biggest mistake Facebook ever made", and it was all about "native apps" for iOS and Android... Now React and React Native are "the new hotness"...
    - thejosh 11y ago
      Or maybe the devices are "good enough" now to actually run these sorts of things? But yes, it is a circle of life.
- mappu 11y ago
  Upstream PHP has gained to about the same speed, and added many of the features (e.g. gradual strict typing and generators). I don't think Facebook would have made the same decision today.
  - LukasReschke 11y ago
    We also have some nice graphs about the speed of PHP 7: https://owncloud.org/blog/php-7-is-here-and-owncloud-is-ready/ https://owncloud.org/blog/php-7-is-here-and-owncloud-is-read...
izacus 11y ago
Well, having used and tried to fix OwnCloud, it IS spaghetti monster from hell that randomly calls out to bash/perl/etc. scripts and happily corrupts non-UTF8 filenames at times (e.g. if you're on a NAS that doesn't have locales setup the same way as the developres) and does other horrible things with data.
- jospoortvliet 11y ago
  Seriously, that's fud. Ok, you're running a NAS so I bet you have hopelessly outdated software on there and it's a miracle anything runs on it, including ownCloud. We probably shouldn't go through so much trouble making it run on any platform we can make it run on. But ownCloud doesn't use bash, doesn't use perl - it is all PHP, javascript, html and CSS. If your NAS build does weird stuff to work around the limitations of your NAS - well, that's one reason we're trying to build something new...

LukasReschke 11y ago

> that doesn't really scale There are deployments out there with a ton of users. For example Sciebo: https://owncloud.com/customer/sciebo/ https://owncloud.com/customer/sciebo/ / http://sciebo.de/projekt/index.html http://sciebo.de/projekt/index.html