6 ms·

Isn't one of the main benefits of something like Firebase or Parse that you don't have to run it? It's nice that Kinto packages the stack together and provides

Isn't one of the main benefits of something like Firebase or Parse that you don't have to run it? It's nice that Kinto packages the stack together and provides plug-and-play APIs, but there's quite a bit of expertise and overhead operating a backend stack in production.

metasean 11y ago
We're actually building an open-source alternative to services like Firebase and Parse. Ours is a fully peer-to-peer, real-time, graph database that doesn't require a lot of expertise or overhead, and is extensible. http://gun.js.org/ http://gun.js.org/ / https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun / https://gitter.im/amark/gun https://gitter.im/amark/gun
mxuribe 11y ago
I believe, really, its more about being indie and such. Its the same reason many people can just run gmail - or google apps for your domain - as opposed to the heavy-lifting of running your own email server, etc. Not like I'm an expert, but running one's email - and ensuring high degree of deliverability nowadays - is quite difficult. There are those who choose to run something on their own, maybe to learn, maybe for privacy's sake, etc. I'm sure those who do so, dive in with their eyes wide open. ;-)
aidos 11y ago
Maybe, but there are others of us who don't use firebase because we can't outsource our datastore like that. It goes both ways.
- cristoph 11y ago
  You can use Parse an Firebase to store sensitive data by applying client side encryption. Of course one of the biggest problem is: how do you query that data since it's encrypted. But lately, there are some start-ups that aim to make encryption searchable. See ZeroDB, CryptDB, IQrypt.- the last one is designed to be used for Parse and Firebase: http://iqrypt.com/docs/Home/ http://iqrypt.com/docs/Home/
d0m 11y ago
In many industries (I.e. healthcare with HIPAA) you can't save your data in Firebase/Parse.
- cmsthrowit 11y ago
  Parse is HIPAA certified.
  - javawizard 11y ago
    According to whom? A quick Google search turns up a number of results to the contrary.
  - jondubois 11y ago
    Regardless of this (assuming this is even true), I can't imagine that a finance company would want to store their data inside something like Firebase - The risk of data theft is too high and the value of the data is also too high. When you store everything in a big centralized system, the risk of that data being compromised increases greatly. Right now, the reason why no one is hacking Firebase is because the data which is being stored in there is low-value. If banks and hospitals started storing data in Firebase, you can be sure that it would attract the attention of hackers and you can be sure that they would find an exploit eventually. You can't possibly place all of the world's high-value data inside one or two systems. Every single change made to the codebase is a potential security vulnerability. Also, I imagine that employees of Firebase have access to all your data - What if one of them decided to share your data with a competitor. Humans are corruptable - This is too much power to put in the hands of so few people.
    - girvo 11y ago
      > hospitals started storing data in Firebase Is health data actually worth that much to hackers? Genuine question.
      - detaro 11y ago
        Media probably would pay a lot for health info on celebrities, politicians, ... Scammers could use the info to find targets (Fake hospital bills, "new medications", ... are easier to sell with correct information. Financial scams might work better on families that are desperate to pay expensive bills) Publicly shaming or attacking people with "bad" or "disgraceful" health issues. (HIV, gender operations, mental issues...)
mansilladev 11y ago
My thoughts exactly. Kinto is a database with an API that you have to configure, deploy, manage and scale. It's not really an alternative to Parse/Firebase, as it is an alternative to Mongo.
- doczoidberg 11y ago
  main feature of firebase for me are the "realtime" updates
  - tostitos1979 11y ago
    I recently tried Parse's Push Notification (which go through GCM on Android). I was shocked by how long the messages seems to take when on cellular. If anyone has tips, I'm all ears.
    - inlined 11y ago
      Full disclosure: former Parse Push tech lead, current Firebase engineer. If your slowdown is only while the device is on mobile, it's almost certainly due to something outside of the Parse stack. Push notifications have grown to be an async information pipe, but never a real-time or reliable one. The most common example of this is APNs (Apple's push network)--Apple only buffers the most recent undelivered notification for an (app, device) pair and messages without UI (aka "silent push") must be sent at a low priority which will likely incur extra delays. If your goal for silent push is to help improve cache hits by pre-populating an app with useful data, don't worry about the slowdown. If you're using push for something that must be reliable or real time, you're probably using the wrong tool. Consider something like Firebase for this instead. If you're already deeply invested in Parse, I've seen people use Parse Cloud Code to replicate writes against Firebase and use Firebase to build a client sync layer.
  - nojvek 11y ago
    I'm not sure why no one mentions rethinkdb. We use it and are extremely happy with both its API mindframe, realtime updates and how easy it is to scale it.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
rdtsc 11y ago
> Isn't one of the main benefits of something like Firebase or Parse that you don't have to run it? But do I have to pay for it?

metasean 11y ago

We're actually building an open-source alternative to services like Firebase and Parse. Ours is a fully peer-to-peer, real-time, graph database that doesn't require a lot of expertise or overhead, and is extensible. http://gun.js.org/ http://gun.js.org/ / https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun / https://gitter.im/amark/gun https://gitter.im/amark/gun

mxuribe 11y ago

I believe, really, its more about being indie and such. Its the same reason many people can just run gmail - or google apps for your domain - as opposed to the heavy-lifting of running your own email server, etc. Not like I'm an expert, but running one's email - and ensuring high degree of deliverability nowadays - is quite difficult. There are those who choose to run something on their own, maybe to learn, maybe for privacy's sake, etc. I'm sure those who do so, dive in with their eyes wide open. ;-)

aidos 11y ago

Maybe, but there are others of us who don't use firebase because we can't outsource our datastore like that. It goes both ways.

cristoph 11y ago
You can use Parse an Firebase to store sensitive data by applying client side encryption. Of course one of the biggest problem is: how do you query that data since it's encrypted. But lately, there are some start-ups that aim to make encryption searchable. See ZeroDB, CryptDB, IQrypt.- the last one is designed to be used for Parse and Firebase: http://iqrypt.com/docs/Home/ http://iqrypt.com/docs/Home/

d0m 11y ago

In many industries (I.e. healthcare with HIPAA) you can't save your data in Firebase/Parse.

cmsthrowit 11y ago
Parse is HIPAA certified.
- javawizard 11y ago
  According to whom? A quick Google search turns up a number of results to the contrary.
- jondubois 11y ago
  Regardless of this (assuming this is even true), I can't imagine that a finance company would want to store their data inside something like Firebase - The risk of data theft is too high and the value of the data is also too high. When you store everything in a big centralized system, the risk of that data being compromised increases greatly. Right now, the reason why no one is hacking Firebase is because the data which is being stored in there is low-value. If banks and hospitals started storing data in Firebase, you can be sure that it would attract the attention of hackers and you can be sure that they would find an exploit eventually. You can't possibly place all of the world's high-value data inside one or two systems. Every single change made to the codebase is a potential security vulnerability. Also, I imagine that employees of Firebase have access to all your data - What if one of them decided to share your data with a competitor. Humans are corruptable - This is too much power to put in the hands of so few people.
  - girvo 11y ago
    > hospitals started storing data in Firebase Is health data actually worth that much to hackers? Genuine question.
    - detaro 11y ago
      Media probably would pay a lot for health info on celebrities, politicians, ... Scammers could use the info to find targets (Fake hospital bills, "new medications", ... are easier to sell with correct information. Financial scams might work better on families that are desperate to pay expensive bills) Publicly shaming or attacking people with "bad" or "disgraceful" health issues. (HIV, gender operations, mental issues...)

mansilladev 11y ago

My thoughts exactly. Kinto is a database with an API that you have to configure, deploy, manage and scale. It's not really an alternative to Parse/Firebase, as it is an alternative to Mongo.

doczoidberg 11y ago
main feature of firebase for me are the "realtime" updates
- tostitos1979 11y ago
  I recently tried Parse's Push Notification (which go through GCM on Android). I was shocked by how long the messages seems to take when on cellular. If anyone has tips, I'm all ears.
  - inlined 11y ago
    Full disclosure: former Parse Push tech lead, current Firebase engineer. If your slowdown is only while the device is on mobile, it's almost certainly due to something outside of the Parse stack. Push notifications have grown to be an async information pipe, but never a real-time or reliable one. The most common example of this is APNs (Apple's push network)--Apple only buffers the most recent undelivered notification for an (app, device) pair and messages without UI (aka "silent push") must be sent at a low priority which will likely incur extra delays. If your goal for silent push is to help improve cache hits by pre-populating an app with useful data, don't worry about the slowdown. If you're using push for something that must be reliable or real time, you're probably using the wrong tool. Consider something like Firebase for this instead. If you're already deeply invested in Parse, I've seen people use Parse Cloud Code to replicate writes against Firebase and use Firebase to build a client sync layer.
- nojvek 11y ago
  I'm not sure why no one mentions rethinkdb. We use it and are extremely happy with both its API mindframe, realtime updates and how easy it is to scale it.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

rdtsc 11y ago

> Isn't one of the main benefits of something like Firebase or Parse that you don't have to run it? But do I have to pay for it?