5 ms·

To be fair, smart TVs still work as TVs, even if the entire "smart" portion is broken. I'm entertaining buying a new TV soon, since mine is on the out after alm

To be fair, smart TVs still work as TVs, even if the entire "smart" portion is broken. I'm entertaining buying a new TV soon, since mine is on the out after almost 10 years. I'd prefer to buy a non-smart TV, but honestly all the top models include it now, so it's pretty much unavoidable.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
You've just described how this scenario most likely will play out with othe appliances if producers decide to go the rental way. People may stay with their old ones... until they break, then it's time to buy a new one, but there's no non-"smart" appliance on the market anymore.
- ethbro 11y ago
  Based on current observation, they'll choose to buy the "smart" tv that comes with built-in overlay advertisements because it's $X cheaper.
- shostack 11y ago
  Exactly. To give a related example...look at Windows 10. I want to buy a new computer and will be in the market very soon. But I'm desperately clinging to my Windows 7 OS, and worried I won't be able to find something that ISN'T Windows 10. In fact, I have newfound urgency around this because I'll bet very soon I won't be able to find any Windows 8 computers on the market.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > I want to buy a new computer and will be in the market very soon. But I'm desperately clinging to my Windows 7 OS, and worried I won't be able to find something that ISN'T Windows 10. Its pretty easy to find computers that aren't Windows 10 (e.g., OS X machines are readily available, as are Chromebooks, and there are even sold-with-Linux computers); its harder to find ones that are Windows-but-not-10, but that's a different thing.
    - PhantomGremlin 11y ago
      its harder to find ones that are Windows-but-not-10 But they're still readily available. I just checked a Dell Precision tower workstation and it comes by default with Win 7. The Dell Optiplex Mini Tower comes by default with Win 8.1, but Win 7 is an easily selected choice. Still, I've been buying OS X machines exclusively for over a decade. There's not a lot that Windows offers me, except their nice Freecell game. But I'm not a FPS gamer, so that probably makes a big difference.
    - shostack 11y ago
      I'm a PC gamer, and that is honestly the only reason I am still on Windows.
OJFord 11y ago
@Temporal - but there's no rent to use a 'smart' TV. You don't have to subscribe to Netflix or Amazon Prime just because those services are integrated with your TV. You can just buy it, ignore what you don't want, and use it 'traditionally' (though still digitally..).
- steve-howard 11y ago
  And remember to turn off the ads they layer over the broadcast.
rsync 11y ago
"To be fair, smart TVs still work as TVs, even if the entire "smart" portion is broken. I'm entertaining buying a new TV soon, since mine is on the out after almost 10 years. I'd prefer to buy a non-smart TV, but honestly all the top models include it now, so it's pretty much unavoidable." You can opt out of using the smart features, but the presence of wifi and bluetooth stacks and cameras and microphones means that you are living with a long list of vulnerabilities and potential intrusive/abusive behavior. The good news is, display manufacturers all make very, very high end models at relatively low prices without any smart features or gizmos at all: they are called signage displays. Think of the screens at the airport with the tiny bezels ... you can buy those. They're awesome.
- snowwrestler 11y ago
  But aren't they way more expensive for given specs than regular consumer TVs? I looked one time and they were like twice the price for a given size/resolution. I couldn't tell if that was because they are engineered to be on all the time, or if manufacturers just jack up the list price so they can maintain margin on discounted bulk pricing for 3,000 panels or whatever.
- ethbro 11y ago
  > You can opt out of using the smart features, but the presence of wifi and bluetooth stacks and cameras and microphones means that you are living with a long list of vulnerabilities and potential intrusive/abusive behavior. 2020's hottest new major: Archaeological Computer Security
- jdcarter 11y ago
  > ...the presence of wifi and bluetooth stacks and cameras and microphones means that you are living with a long list of vulnerabilities... No, you just turn those off. I bought a TV recently and didn't have any option (for this particular model line) of getting a "non-smart" version. I simply turned off the TV's networking. The only cables attached to the TV are power and HDMI, so it's effectively a dumb TV with zero attack surface.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

You've just described how this scenario most likely will play out with othe appliances if producers decide to go the rental way. People may stay with their old ones... until they break, then it's time to buy a new one, but there's no non-"smart" appliance on the market anymore.

ethbro 11y ago
Based on current observation, they'll choose to buy the "smart" tv that comes with built-in overlay advertisements because it's $X cheaper.
shostack 11y ago
Exactly. To give a related example...look at Windows 10. I want to buy a new computer and will be in the market very soon. But I'm desperately clinging to my Windows 7 OS, and worried I won't be able to find something that ISN'T Windows 10. In fact, I have newfound urgency around this because I'll bet very soon I won't be able to find any Windows 8 computers on the market.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > I want to buy a new computer and will be in the market very soon. But I'm desperately clinging to my Windows 7 OS, and worried I won't be able to find something that ISN'T Windows 10. Its pretty easy to find computers that aren't Windows 10 (e.g., OS X machines are readily available, as are Chromebooks, and there are even sold-with-Linux computers); its harder to find ones that are Windows-but-not-10, but that's a different thing.
  - PhantomGremlin 11y ago
    its harder to find ones that are Windows-but-not-10 But they're still readily available. I just checked a Dell Precision tower workstation and it comes by default with Win 7. The Dell Optiplex Mini Tower comes by default with Win 8.1, but Win 7 is an easily selected choice. Still, I've been buying OS X machines exclusively for over a decade. There's not a lot that Windows offers me, except their nice Freecell game. But I'm not a FPS gamer, so that probably makes a big difference.
  - shostack 11y ago
    I'm a PC gamer, and that is honestly the only reason I am still on Windows.

OJFord 11y ago

@Temporal - but there's no rent to use a 'smart' TV. You don't have to subscribe to Netflix or Amazon Prime just because those services are integrated with your TV. You can just buy it, ignore what you don't want, and use it 'traditionally' (though still digitally..).

steve-howard 11y ago
And remember to turn off the ads they layer over the broadcast.

rsync 11y ago

"To be fair, smart TVs still work as TVs, even if the entire "smart" portion is broken. I'm entertaining buying a new TV soon, since mine is on the out after almost 10 years. I'd prefer to buy a non-smart TV, but honestly all the top models include it now, so it's pretty much unavoidable." You can opt out of using the smart features, but the presence of wifi and bluetooth stacks and cameras and microphones means that you are living with a long list of vulnerabilities and potential intrusive/abusive behavior. The good news is, display manufacturers all make very, very high end models at relatively low prices without any smart features or gizmos at all: they are called signage displays. Think of the screens at the airport with the tiny bezels ... you can buy those. They're awesome.

snowwrestler 11y ago
But aren't they way more expensive for given specs than regular consumer TVs? I looked one time and they were like twice the price for a given size/resolution. I couldn't tell if that was because they are engineered to be on all the time, or if manufacturers just jack up the list price so they can maintain margin on discounted bulk pricing for 3,000 panels or whatever.
ethbro 11y ago
> You can opt out of using the smart features, but the presence of wifi and bluetooth stacks and cameras and microphones means that you are living with a long list of vulnerabilities and potential intrusive/abusive behavior. 2020's hottest new major: Archaeological Computer Security
jdcarter 11y ago
> ...the presence of wifi and bluetooth stacks and cameras and microphones means that you are living with a long list of vulnerabilities... No, you just turn those off. I bought a TV recently and didn't have any option (for this particular model line) of getting a "non-smart" version. I simply turned off the TV's networking. The only cables attached to the TV are power and HDMI, so it's effectively a dumb TV with zero attack surface.