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> Health care in the US is just fucked, and everyone knows it. And yet people still move here for the "fucked" health care because it's cheaper, better, and av

> Health care in the US is just fucked, and everyone knows it. And yet people still move here for the "fucked" health care because it's cheaper, better, and available unlike other countries held in high regard, such as Canada. I am one such person who was lucky enough to be able to do that, and would never return to Canada after the abusive treatment handed out by the health care "professionals."

ashark 11y ago
So I suppose there's a serious movement to reform their healthcare system to be more like ours? Maybe also in all the other universal healthcare-having countries with advanced economies (so, the entire rest of the OECD states, more or less)?
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  There is a push to reform the way they handle long term care in Canada, but it's not something people think about until it happens to them. Mental health care is generally like that. Do some reading on the lack of autistic services up in Canada and the efforts people are trying to go through to improve the lack of support up there. The services are severely lacking. I had to deal with it in 2010-11, and it's only gotten worse from people we talk to still dealing with it. Don't blindly think that just because you can get your broken arm fixed for cheap or no cost that it means health care is a solved problem in other countries. Coming to the US, it was 100% cheaper, available now, and better compared to anything Canada remotely offered, even looking at private services.
  - ashark 11y ago
    Is it a problem that's more pronounced in some provinces than others? My understanding was that there's a nationwide mandate to provide universal insurance, but that the details are left to the provinces. As for mental healthcare in particular: thanks for the insight, I know very little about how that works in other countries. Seems like an area with room for improvement just about everywhere, unfortunately. I'll definitely keep that kind of thing in mind when reading on related topics in the future.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jerf 11y ago
  If you pay attention, yes, in general, there are places both pushing to increase their centralization and places that seek to decrease it. Nobody is setting out to specifically copy the US system, because the US system is full of accidents of history like "employer-based health coverage". That's not a useful data point in general, though. The real point is that there indeed a lot of motion happening all around the world and it is not all in the direction of increasing central control, nor is it all in the direction of decreasing it.
mikecsh 11y ago
Have a read of this - the Commonwealth Fund rankings of wealthy country's health care systems, published last July: http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/20... Just to add some colour: Quality: U.S. fares best on provision and receipt of preventive and patient-centered care. While there has been some improvement in recent years, lower scores on safe and coordinated care pull the overall U.S. quality score down Access: Not surprisingly—given the absence of universal coverage—people in the U.S. go without needed health care because of cost Efficiency: On indicators of efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries Equity: The U.S. ranks a clear last on measures of equity. Healthy lives: The U.S. ranks last overall with poor scores on all three indicators
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  What does this have to do with my experience with Canada's health care system? I'm merely stating the facts of what my family had to go through and experienced with Canada's lack of mental health care support for my children, and the results. Edit: Because you decided to edit your comment. Here are some other numbers for you. -14 days vs 2+ years: US wait time vs Canada wait time to get help for my autistic son. We had help before we arrived in the US. We had no help for autism while up in Canada. $0/yr vs. $36,000/yr: US cost vs Canada cost for autism therapy. The $36k Canadian cost was the soonest we could get it, which was still a wait time of more than a year after the appointment (which had an additional wait time). Canada did have more doctors complaining that we were trying to do to much for our children though. It has that going for it.
  - mikecsh 11y ago
    Im sorry to hear that you had bad experiences in Canada. However your personal story is effectively one data point and not necessarily representative of a good comparison between healthcare systems. This analysis is a pretty good overall analysis of the quality, efficacy and safety of different healthcare systems. That’s not to say that just because the US is worse overall that it doesn’t perform better in a subset of medicine, in your case, mental health. But no matter what your own personal situation, you have effectively moved from a bad system to a worse system (even though it has been good for your family personally). The original posts point which you quoted is that the US health system is Fd and everyone knows it. The analysis presented here supports that. The US spends a lot more per capita on healthcare with worse outcomes and less people having access to healthcare. I’m very glad your move has has worked out for you. (UK Medical Student)
s73v3r 11y ago
Nobody has ever said that US healthcare was cheaper. Not one.
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  I posted actual numbers. Sorry, but $0 is not more expensive than $36k.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    You're a fool if you believe that $0 is the actual cost.
draw_down 11y ago
I don't think people move here for the health care, I really don't. I'm sure US has better health care than where many come from, but if that was your express interest in emigrating you could do a whole lot better than the US.

ashark 11y ago

So I suppose there's a serious movement to reform their healthcare system to be more like ours? Maybe also in all the other universal healthcare-having countries with advanced economies (so, the entire rest of the OECD states, more or less)?

jasonlotito 11y ago
There is a push to reform the way they handle long term care in Canada, but it's not something people think about until it happens to them. Mental health care is generally like that. Do some reading on the lack of autistic services up in Canada and the efforts people are trying to go through to improve the lack of support up there. The services are severely lacking. I had to deal with it in 2010-11, and it's only gotten worse from people we talk to still dealing with it. Don't blindly think that just because you can get your broken arm fixed for cheap or no cost that it means health care is a solved problem in other countries. Coming to the US, it was 100% cheaper, available now, and better compared to anything Canada remotely offered, even looking at private services.
- ashark 11y ago
  Is it a problem that's more pronounced in some provinces than others? My understanding was that there's a nationwide mandate to provide universal insurance, but that the details are left to the provinces. As for mental healthcare in particular: thanks for the insight, I know very little about how that works in other countries. Seems like an area with room for improvement just about everywhere, unfortunately. I'll definitely keep that kind of thing in mind when reading on related topics in the future.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jerf 11y ago
If you pay attention, yes, in general, there are places both pushing to increase their centralization and places that seek to decrease it. Nobody is setting out to specifically copy the US system, because the US system is full of accidents of history like "employer-based health coverage". That's not a useful data point in general, though. The real point is that there indeed a lot of motion happening all around the world and it is not all in the direction of increasing central control, nor is it all in the direction of decreasing it.

mikecsh 11y ago

Have a read of this - the Commonwealth Fund rankings of wealthy country's health care systems, published last July: http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/20... Just to add some colour: Quality: U.S. fares best on provision and receipt of preventive and patient-centered care. While there has been some improvement in recent years, lower scores on safe and coordinated care pull the overall U.S. quality score down Access: Not surprisingly—given the absence of universal coverage—people in the U.S. go without needed health care because of cost Efficiency: On indicators of efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries Equity: The U.S. ranks a clear last on measures of equity. Healthy lives: The U.S. ranks last overall with poor scores on all three indicators

jasonlotito 11y ago
What does this have to do with my experience with Canada's health care system? I'm merely stating the facts of what my family had to go through and experienced with Canada's lack of mental health care support for my children, and the results. Edit: Because you decided to edit your comment. Here are some other numbers for you. -14 days vs 2+ years: US wait time vs Canada wait time to get help for my autistic son. We had help before we arrived in the US. We had no help for autism while up in Canada. $0/yr vs. $36,000/yr: US cost vs Canada cost for autism therapy. The $36k Canadian cost was the soonest we could get it, which was still a wait time of more than a year after the appointment (which had an additional wait time). Canada did have more doctors complaining that we were trying to do to much for our children though. It has that going for it.
- mikecsh 11y ago
  Im sorry to hear that you had bad experiences in Canada. However your personal story is effectively one data point and not necessarily representative of a good comparison between healthcare systems. This analysis is a pretty good overall analysis of the quality, efficacy and safety of different healthcare systems. That’s not to say that just because the US is worse overall that it doesn’t perform better in a subset of medicine, in your case, mental health. But no matter what your own personal situation, you have effectively moved from a bad system to a worse system (even though it has been good for your family personally). The original posts point which you quoted is that the US health system is Fd and everyone knows it. The analysis presented here supports that. The US spends a lot more per capita on healthcare with worse outcomes and less people having access to healthcare. I’m very glad your move has has worked out for you. (UK Medical Student)

s73v3r 11y ago

Nobody has ever said that US healthcare was cheaper. Not one.

jasonlotito 11y ago
I posted actual numbers. Sorry, but $0 is not more expensive than $36k.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  You're a fool if you believe that $0 is the actual cost.

draw_down 11y ago

I don't think people move here for the health care, I really don't. I'm sure US has better health care than where many come from, but if that was your express interest in emigrating you could do a whole lot better than the US.