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Can we get over the generations concept soon? Younger people are less mature... because they are younger. At some point the millennials will be the old generat

Can we get over the generations concept soon? Younger people are less mature... because they are younger. At some point the millennials will be the old generation complaining about how we used to have to actually "text" rather than just think our ideas and have them transcribed. There will be something about how the process of having to conceive of grammar and spelling made your thoughts more coherent. But society will move on anyway, and yes, the younger generation will be less mature, at least, until it gets older. I never really understood why it bothers people so much that things progress. But maybe I am just grumpy because it is Monday :)

Wintamute 11y ago
Differences in attitudes between generations are interesting to think about, and illustrative of changes to society. Are you suggesting that literally the only differences between generations are related to maturity? The article didn't seem overly "bothered" by the millennial attitudes it described, rather it was simply noting them and exploring the idea that business practices may need to change to accommodate them. The only one who seems "bothered" is you, so maybe you are feeling grumpy! Hope you feel better soon :)
- Practicality 11y ago
  Yeah, more coffee helps. :) The differences are 1) maturity and 2) changes to society are generally reflected more in younger people than in older people. My point is that many conflate #1 with #2 and therefore argue that the changes (to both society and the new generation) are bad. But yes, my statement was more taking issue with the general attitude towards millennials appearing just about everywhere. This particular article only touched on it, but I probably responded to the the general sentiment just because I a little grumpy :). The problem I am really having with the concept of generations is we end up judging people based upon their age rather than discerning the separate concepts of individuals + a changing society.
- michaelt 11y ago
  The problem with discussions of change to society and differences between generations is it's very tempting for people talking about those things to extrapolate anecdotes and first-hand experiences, which measure the journalist more than they measure society. For example, a 25-year-old journalist might think that getting married and having children has risen in popularity compared to 7 years ago. Is it a sign people are recovering confidence after the 2008 economic downturn? Maybe - but it might just mean all his/her friends from school are getting married and having kids, and more people do that at age 25 than at age 18. Maybe society hasn't changed at all :)
forgetsusername 11y ago
>Can we get over the generations concept soon? The article isn't about broad, inter-generational disparities. It was about one in particular (and perhaps even exclusively American): comfortability with being nude around other people. Having grown up around locker rooms, I don't think twice about hopping in the public shower. Maybe that's not everyone's cup of tea, but the idea of being completely averse and uncomfortable to a point strikes me as odd. Where does it come from?
- adevine 11y ago
  My own personal hypothesis? An explosion of sexual content in media, coupled with, somewhat ironically, much more tolerance of gay people, means that for a lot of people their only exposure to nudity is in a (potentially) sexual context.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  Apparently, as the article references, the practice of the social expectation of participation in post-PE showers in high school (the actual requirement to do so had stopped most places by the 1980s, AFAIK) pretty much collapsed during the 1990s (why that happened might be an interesting question) -- as a result, adults of the millennial generation haven't been socialized into that being a context where nudity with strangers is normal. That really seems to be the whole of the effect.
adevine 11y ago
It's not just age, though. There IS a significant cultural difference that is generational. As someone in their late 30s, it strikes me how extremely uncomfortable men in their 20s are with nudity. I mean, it takes significant effort to do the "under the towel caterpillar shuffle" to change, all because having a bare butt for the 4 seconds from when your towel is dropped until your underwear is on is untenable.
- Jtsummers 11y ago
  > I mean, it takes significant effort to do the "under the towel caterpillar shuffle" to change, all because having a bare butt for the 4 seconds from when your towel is dropped until your underwear is on is untenable. Hah. So I worked at a USAF base. We received 3 hours/week as "fitness leave". Two gyms available, running trails and places to go cycling or swimming. I took them up on it because, dude, why not get in good shape if the office is going to pay you to? I kept trying to talk coworkers into going with me (for runs, or as lifting partners). But they wouldn't, "I don't want to change in the locker rooms." Ok, fine, they have bathroom and shower stalls you can change in. "I don't want to see other guys walking around naked." Dude, it's nothing you've not seen before. Sure you haven't seen that guy naked, but just don't look, or keep your eyes up, or get over it. They literally opted not to make their lives a bit better (less time in the office, more time in the gym, gym time didn't take away from free time, etc.) because they were so scared of seeing another man naked.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Can we get over the generations concept soon? No, because while only loose groupings, it nevertheless captures real and meaningful things. > Younger people are less mature... because they are younger. This isn't about more or less maturity, so much as a cultural shift in expectations with succeeding generations. The generation that didn't (for a variety of reasons) shower together in high school the way previous generations did, perhaps unsurprisingly (when viewed in that context), is more resistant to doing so as adults. > I never really understood why it bothers people so much that things progress. Cultural expectations bother people with different preference than what is dominant; so, unsurprisingly, generational shifts in cultural expectations bother people whose preferences align with the previously dominant expectations.

Wintamute 11y ago

Differences in attitudes between generations are interesting to think about, and illustrative of changes to society. Are you suggesting that literally the only differences between generations are related to maturity? The article didn't seem overly "bothered" by the millennial attitudes it described, rather it was simply noting them and exploring the idea that business practices may need to change to accommodate them. The only one who seems "bothered" is you, so maybe you are feeling grumpy! Hope you feel better soon :)

Practicality 11y ago
Yeah, more coffee helps. :) The differences are 1) maturity and 2) changes to society are generally reflected more in younger people than in older people. My point is that many conflate #1 with #2 and therefore argue that the changes (to both society and the new generation) are bad. But yes, my statement was more taking issue with the general attitude towards millennials appearing just about everywhere. This particular article only touched on it, but I probably responded to the the general sentiment just because I a little grumpy :). The problem I am really having with the concept of generations is we end up judging people based upon their age rather than discerning the separate concepts of individuals + a changing society.
michaelt 11y ago
The problem with discussions of change to society and differences between generations is it's very tempting for people talking about those things to extrapolate anecdotes and first-hand experiences, which measure the journalist more than they measure society. For example, a 25-year-old journalist might think that getting married and having children has risen in popularity compared to 7 years ago. Is it a sign people are recovering confidence after the 2008 economic downturn? Maybe - but it might just mean all his/her friends from school are getting married and having kids, and more people do that at age 25 than at age 18. Maybe society hasn't changed at all :)

forgetsusername 11y ago

>Can we get over the generations concept soon? The article isn't about broad, inter-generational disparities. It was about one in particular (and perhaps even exclusively American): comfortability with being nude around other people. Having grown up around locker rooms, I don't think twice about hopping in the public shower. Maybe that's not everyone's cup of tea, but the idea of being completely averse and uncomfortable to a point strikes me as odd. Where does it come from?

adevine 11y ago
My own personal hypothesis? An explosion of sexual content in media, coupled with, somewhat ironically, much more tolerance of gay people, means that for a lot of people their only exposure to nudity is in a (potentially) sexual context.
dragonwriter 11y ago
Apparently, as the article references, the practice of the social expectation of participation in post-PE showers in high school (the actual requirement to do so had stopped most places by the 1980s, AFAIK) pretty much collapsed during the 1990s (why that happened might be an interesting question) -- as a result, adults of the millennial generation haven't been socialized into that being a context where nudity with strangers is normal. That really seems to be the whole of the effect.

adevine 11y ago

It's not just age, though. There IS a significant cultural difference that is generational. As someone in their late 30s, it strikes me how extremely uncomfortable men in their 20s are with nudity. I mean, it takes significant effort to do the "under the towel caterpillar shuffle" to change, all because having a bare butt for the 4 seconds from when your towel is dropped until your underwear is on is untenable.

Jtsummers 11y ago
> I mean, it takes significant effort to do the "under the towel caterpillar shuffle" to change, all because having a bare butt for the 4 seconds from when your towel is dropped until your underwear is on is untenable. Hah. So I worked at a USAF base. We received 3 hours/week as "fitness leave". Two gyms available, running trails and places to go cycling or swimming. I took them up on it because, dude, why not get in good shape if the office is going to pay you to? I kept trying to talk coworkers into going with me (for runs, or as lifting partners). But they wouldn't, "I don't want to change in the locker rooms." Ok, fine, they have bathroom and shower stalls you can change in. "I don't want to see other guys walking around naked." Dude, it's nothing you've not seen before. Sure you haven't seen that guy naked, but just don't look, or keep your eyes up, or get over it. They literally opted not to make their lives a bit better (less time in the office, more time in the gym, gym time didn't take away from free time, etc.) because they were so scared of seeing another man naked.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Can we get over the generations concept soon? No, because while only loose groupings, it nevertheless captures real and meaningful things. > Younger people are less mature... because they are younger. This isn't about more or less maturity, so much as a cultural shift in expectations with succeeding generations. The generation that didn't (for a variety of reasons) shower together in high school the way previous generations did, perhaps unsurprisingly (when viewed in that context), is more resistant to doing so as adults. > I never really understood why it bothers people so much that things progress. Cultural expectations bother people with different preference than what is dominant; so, unsurprisingly, generational shifts in cultural expectations bother people whose preferences align with the previously dominant expectations.