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Having more private locker rooms could have negative psychological side effects on us. At first the naked locker room is weird. However after a while you stop

Having more private locker rooms could have negative psychological side effects on us. At first the naked locker room is weird. However after a while you stop caring. Its almost like a body self empowerment. I can see the positive & negative side of it though. However sheltering the youth from all negative feedback is not a good thing either. People need to grow up facing adversity.

golemotron 11y ago
I agree. My first thought reading the article was "can this generation become any more precious?" Feelings are great, but when you put them in the driver's seat you don't get the chance to see how they can change and how you can grow in the process. It's the difference between being scared of flying all your life and getting past that fear. There's pride in overcoming your fears. You feel less like a victim.
- benten10 11y ago
  Nope. You're conflating two _very_ unrelated trends to prove your pre-existing 'can this generation become any more precious' belief. For example, people in India are generally opposite of what you might call 'precious'. Parents will very openly call out their kids on their body size, their appearance, there whatever. Young men and womanly will openly (and sometimes, far too much) discuss relative attractiveness of persons -- often admitting that while they themselves are not that attractive, so and so is even uglier, etcetera. They are, I would imagine, not in any sense of the word 'precious' or coddled. The South Asian cultures are also the epitome of what might be considered 'collective' culture, versus the more American individualistic, 'me-me-me' culture. And yet. People never ever ever get naked. Ever. Not even when they shower. In their private bathrooms. With no one watching. There's joke about how South Asians don't get naked even when having sex (which, I'm told, appears to reflect reality). You would imagine, with people so comfortable with friends and families (note South Asian men have traditionally been verrry comfortable being physically close to other men, including holding hands, frequent hugs, etcetera), they would not be as shy about nudity. And yet they are. Here's another datapoint: the Japanese, who are still culturally very family-community centered, will get naked at a drop of a feather. Use your 'precious generation doesn't want to get naked' theory to explain these, and your theory will pass the basic test.
  - Wintamute 11y ago
    The difference here is we're not observing long standing cultural attitudes in millennials, but a very short term shift that defies their parent culture. You're criticising OP for not comparing apples and oranges ~ doesn't make sense. OP's point stands.
    - benten10 11y ago
      OP claims to explain the 'shying away from nudity' phenomena using the 'ahh those precious young people' argument. I argue that it's not necessarily the 'precious youth' that is shy of nudity, and I present a cross-cultural proof that shyness of nudity is not necessarily due to his presumed cause. Comparing Apples to Oranges is exactly what's needed here. By doing so, I'm helping isolate the variable OP suggests affects Apples is not so. Imagine he'd claimed that Apples are suddenly brown because of 'those damn young trees'. If I show that those darned young trees elsewhere don't have the same issue, then there'd be a greater need on the OP's side to actually provide the proof that it's those darned precious young people. OP needs to provide a greater proof that it's because of those 'precious youth'. I might argue that it's due to increased cultural influence of more body-conservative cultures, or because (ridiculous as it may sound) online nudity is now so common, people don't want their online versions to be identified to offline bodies [which is VERY different from what OP argues].
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > but a very short term shift that defies their parent culture. Except its not a "very short term shift that defies their parent culture", its a long term drift in the broader culture, as the article notes: Gen-Xers are notably different than Boomers on this, in the same direction (though not to the same degree) as Millenials.
  - Tharkun 11y ago
    The Japanese are a bit special. Japan is hot and humid, and traditionally a lot of the labour would get you wet. It was not uncommon for Japanese men and women to work the fields, or catch fish, naked or nearly naked. In fact, some early Western visitors commented as such. The perceived Japanese sense of modesty and prudeness is a relative new phenomenon, instigated after WW2 by American prudeness.
- cholantesh 11y ago
  It seems to me that previous generations complain a whole lot more about purported delicacies in millennials than millennials who actually manifest those delicacies. Gen-Xers have complained for decades about locker room nudity (it's a standard trope of comedy from the 80s and 90s, in fact), so in context, at least some of those insecurities are clearly inherited.
kevingadd 11y ago
If you're concerned about the negative impact of not being used to seeing naked bodies, maybe fix the way our media and government is terrified of naked bodies instead of forcing people to be naked in front of other people to access basic public accommodations like gyms. This is especially cruel to younger kids when they're going to get harassed.
- Tharkun 11y ago
  The two are obviously related, though maybe not causally. Over here in Belgium, such prudeness is pretty rare.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >forcing people to be naked in front of other people to access basic public accommodations like gyms. There's an air of...entitlement(?) to comments like this. Nobody is forced to be naked in front of others, and a gym isn't a public accommodation. If it doesn't work for you, don't go there. Gym membership is not a "right". Everyone's particular sensibilities can not be taken into account. If the market demands privacy the market will deliver privacy.
  - skywhopper 11y ago
    Middle- and high- schoolers were often forced to get naked in front of their peers during mandatory gym class in the US. Such communal showering continued into college dorms as well. Things have changed for a large part and young people expect more personal privacy now. So it makes sense that gyms that want to accomodate the tastes of their customers would start providing more privacy. By the way, a gym is absolutely a public accommodation, but it's true that gyms for adults generally do not require you to get naked in front of other members of the gym (you're free to leave sweaty). Still I can't think of a good argument as to why a gym should go out of its way to avoid allowing its members privacy in the locker room...

golemotron 11y ago

I agree. My first thought reading the article was "can this generation become any more precious?" Feelings are great, but when you put them in the driver's seat you don't get the chance to see how they can change and how you can grow in the process. It's the difference between being scared of flying all your life and getting past that fear. There's pride in overcoming your fears. You feel less like a victim.

benten10 11y ago
Nope. You're conflating two _very_ unrelated trends to prove your pre-existing 'can this generation become any more precious' belief. For example, people in India are generally opposite of what you might call 'precious'. Parents will very openly call out their kids on their body size, their appearance, there whatever. Young men and womanly will openly (and sometimes, far too much) discuss relative attractiveness of persons -- often admitting that while they themselves are not that attractive, so and so is even uglier, etcetera. They are, I would imagine, not in any sense of the word 'precious' or coddled. The South Asian cultures are also the epitome of what might be considered 'collective' culture, versus the more American individualistic, 'me-me-me' culture. And yet. People never ever ever get naked. Ever. Not even when they shower. In their private bathrooms. With no one watching. There's joke about how South Asians don't get naked even when having sex (which, I'm told, appears to reflect reality). You would imagine, with people so comfortable with friends and families (note South Asian men have traditionally been verrry comfortable being physically close to other men, including holding hands, frequent hugs, etcetera), they would not be as shy about nudity. And yet they are. Here's another datapoint: the Japanese, who are still culturally very family-community centered, will get naked at a drop of a feather. Use your 'precious generation doesn't want to get naked' theory to explain these, and your theory will pass the basic test.
- Wintamute 11y ago
  The difference here is we're not observing long standing cultural attitudes in millennials, but a very short term shift that defies their parent culture. You're criticising OP for not comparing apples and oranges ~ doesn't make sense. OP's point stands.
  - benten10 11y ago
    OP claims to explain the 'shying away from nudity' phenomena using the 'ahh those precious young people' argument. I argue that it's not necessarily the 'precious youth' that is shy of nudity, and I present a cross-cultural proof that shyness of nudity is not necessarily due to his presumed cause. Comparing Apples to Oranges is exactly what's needed here. By doing so, I'm helping isolate the variable OP suggests affects Apples is not so. Imagine he'd claimed that Apples are suddenly brown because of 'those damn young trees'. If I show that those darned young trees elsewhere don't have the same issue, then there'd be a greater need on the OP's side to actually provide the proof that it's those darned precious young people. OP needs to provide a greater proof that it's because of those 'precious youth'. I might argue that it's due to increased cultural influence of more body-conservative cultures, or because (ridiculous as it may sound) online nudity is now so common, people don't want their online versions to be identified to offline bodies [which is VERY different from what OP argues].
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > but a very short term shift that defies their parent culture. Except its not a "very short term shift that defies their parent culture", its a long term drift in the broader culture, as the article notes: Gen-Xers are notably different than Boomers on this, in the same direction (though not to the same degree) as Millenials.
- Tharkun 11y ago
  The Japanese are a bit special. Japan is hot and humid, and traditionally a lot of the labour would get you wet. It was not uncommon for Japanese men and women to work the fields, or catch fish, naked or nearly naked. In fact, some early Western visitors commented as such. The perceived Japanese sense of modesty and prudeness is a relative new phenomenon, instigated after WW2 by American prudeness.
cholantesh 11y ago
It seems to me that previous generations complain a whole lot more about purported delicacies in millennials than millennials who actually manifest those delicacies. Gen-Xers have complained for decades about locker room nudity (it's a standard trope of comedy from the 80s and 90s, in fact), so in context, at least some of those insecurities are clearly inherited.

kevingadd 11y ago

If you're concerned about the negative impact of not being used to seeing naked bodies, maybe fix the way our media and government is terrified of naked bodies instead of forcing people to be naked in front of other people to access basic public accommodations like gyms. This is especially cruel to younger kids when they're going to get harassed.

Tharkun 11y ago
The two are obviously related, though maybe not causally. Over here in Belgium, such prudeness is pretty rare.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>forcing people to be naked in front of other people to access basic public accommodations like gyms. There's an air of...entitlement(?) to comments like this. Nobody is forced to be naked in front of others, and a gym isn't a public accommodation. If it doesn't work for you, don't go there. Gym membership is not a "right". Everyone's particular sensibilities can not be taken into account. If the market demands privacy the market will deliver privacy.
- skywhopper 11y ago
  Middle- and high- schoolers were often forced to get naked in front of their peers during mandatory gym class in the US. Such communal showering continued into college dorms as well. Things have changed for a large part and young people expect more personal privacy now. So it makes sense that gyms that want to accomodate the tastes of their customers would start providing more privacy. By the way, a gym is absolutely a public accommodation, but it's true that gyms for adults generally do not require you to get naked in front of other members of the gym (you're free to leave sweaty). Still I can't think of a good argument as to why a gym should go out of its way to avoid allowing its members privacy in the locker room...