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Men’s Locker Room Designers Take Pity on Naked Millennials
- pjc50 11y agoThis is definitely improved by the "millenials" => "snake people" translator.
- psykovsky 11y ago>>> Showering after gym class in high school became virtually extinct in the ’90s. Maybe in the US... TIL Americans from the USA are disgusting pigs.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- dang 11y agoPlease stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
- psykovsky 11y agoSo, what I took from the article is unsubstantive? That's a matter of opinion, I'm sure. If any American got offended with my comment maybe they should take it with the "journalist" who wrote the article.
- dang 11y agoYes, the bar for a good HN comment is much higher than just "what I took from the article". The question is whether what you "took" is anything others can learn from, and "Americans are disgusting pigs" is at the bottom of that barrel. (Nothing to do with Americans taking offence, btw. Anyone who cares about HN would take offence.)
- psykovsky 11y agoDude, get off that high horse...
- cobookman 11y agoHaving more private locker rooms could have negative psychological side effects on us. At first the naked locker room is weird. However after a while you stop caring. Its almost like a body self empowerment. I can see the positive & negative side of it though. However sheltering the youth from all negative feedback is not a good thing either. People need to grow up facing adversity.
- golemotron 11y agoI agree. My first thought reading the article was "can this generation become any more precious?" Feelings are great, but when you put them in the driver's seat you don't get the chance to see how they can change and how you can grow in the process. It's the difference between being scared of flying all your life and getting past that fear. There's pride in overcoming your fears. You feel less like a victim.
- benten10 11y agoNope. You're conflating two _very_ unrelated trends to prove your pre-existing 'can this generation become any more precious' belief. For example, people in India are generally opposite of what you might call 'precious'. Parents will very openly call out their kids on their body size, their appearance, there whatever. Young men and womanly will openly (and sometimes, far too much) discuss relative attractiveness of persons -- often admitting that while they themselves are not that attractive, so and so is even uglier, etcetera. They are, I would imagine, not in any sense of the word 'precious' or coddled. The South Asian cultures are also the epitome of what might be considered 'collective' culture, versus the more American individualistic, 'me-me-me' culture. And yet. People never ever ever get naked. Ever. Not even when they shower. In their private bathrooms. With no one watching. There's joke about how South Asians don't get naked even when having sex (which, I'm told, appears to reflect reality). You would imagine, with people so comfortable with friends and families (note South Asian men have traditionally been verrry comfortable being physically close to other men, including holding hands, frequent hugs, etcetera), they would not be as shy about nudity. And yet they are. Here's another datapoint: the Japanese, who are still culturally very family-community centered, will get naked at a drop of a feather. Use your 'precious generation doesn't want to get naked' theory to explain these, and your theory will pass the basic test.
- CPLX 11y agoWatching old men walk around and have conversations with each other about their wife and kids while their drooping hairy genitals flap back and forth has been a time honored gymgoing right of passage for generations. These young whippersnappers have no respect for tradition, clearly.
- ClayM 11y agoi'm on the older side of the millennial generation (born in 1980) and since I was 22, I've been going to one of those nicer gyms where there's lots of old men walking around with their junk hanging out. it bothered me for about 6 months, then i got over it. also realized that it was an amazing place to network. putting up walls would have been bad for my career.
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- mrtron 11y agoWe always referred to them as the flaunters. They would carry a towel in hand, which was counter to my traditional towel wrapping technique. Basic qualification for the flaunters was grey hair.
- jschwartzi 11y agoI really don't think people at the gym care that much about being nude in the locker room. This reads a lot like a paid-for ad for design services.
- sp332 11y agoWell that's extremely self-selecting isn't it? There's an unknown number of potential gym customers who don't go because they're uncomfortable. And I bet a bunch of current gym-goers would pay more if they didn't have to put up with it. Sounds like a good business move to me.
- adrianN 11y agoAnecdotally, in my gym a lot of the younger people shower while wearing underwear.
- CPLX 11y agoDoes this actually happen in real life? Underwear, like cotton things you wear under your clothes normally, not swimwear?
- adrianN 11y agoYes, actual underwear. I assume the same one they exercized in. (Amazing life hack: shower in your undies and save $$$ in laundry!) It amazes me as much as you even though I see it every other day.
- Practicality 11y agoCan we get over the generations concept soon? Younger people are less mature... because they are younger. At some point the millennials will be the old generation complaining about how we used to have to actually "text" rather than just think our ideas and have them transcribed. There will be something about how the process of having to conceive of grammar and spelling made your thoughts more coherent. But society will move on anyway, and yes, the younger generation will be less mature, at least, until it gets older. I never really understood why it bothers people so much that things progress. But maybe I am just grumpy because it is Monday :)
- Wintamute 11y agoDifferences in attitudes between generations are interesting to think about, and illustrative of changes to society. Are you suggesting that literally the only differences between generations are related to maturity? The article didn't seem overly "bothered" by the millennial attitudes it described, rather it was simply noting them and exploring the idea that business practices may need to change to accommodate them. The only one who seems "bothered" is you, so maybe you are feeling grumpy! Hope you feel better soon :)
- Practicality 11y agoYeah, more coffee helps. :) The differences are 1) maturity and 2) changes to society are generally reflected more in younger people than in older people. My point is that many conflate #1 with #2 and therefore argue that the changes (to both society and the new generation) are bad. But yes, my statement was more taking issue with the general attitude towards millennials appearing just about everywhere. This particular article only touched on it, but I probably responded to the the general sentiment just because I a little grumpy :). The problem I am really having with the concept of generations is we end up judging people based upon their age rather than discerning the separate concepts of individuals + a changing society.
- michaelt 11y agoThe problem with discussions of change to society and differences between generations is it's very tempting for people talking about those things to extrapolate anecdotes and first-hand experiences, which measure the journalist more than they measure society. For example, a 25-year-old journalist might think that getting married and having children has risen in popularity compared to 7 years ago. Is it a sign people are recovering confidence after the 2008 economic downturn? Maybe - but it might just mean all his/her friends from school are getting married and having kids, and more people do that at age 25 than at age 18. Maybe society hasn't changed at all :)
- gk1 11y agoMillennials? Gyms like Equinox in NYC start at over $600 per month. I see the described designs as adding luxury to wealthy clients, not adding privacy to pee-shy youngins.
- CPLX 11y ago> Gyms like Equinox in NYC start at over $600 per month No, they don't. That's ridiculous.
- gk1 11y agoYou're right, I was thinking of the starting fee. The monthly rate is around $200: http://ny.racked.com/2015/1/13/7561179/nyc-chain-gyms-cost http://ny.racked.com/2015/1/13/7561179/nyc-chain-gyms-cost
- wldcordeiro 11y agoThat's still a lot to pay per month for a gym membership.
- CPLX 11y agoIt's also New York, and Equinox. NYSC is basically the Starbucks of gyms in the city, they are middle of the road and everywhere. Their rates are $20-30 a month now.
- tarentel 11y agoIt is but anyone who can afford to go there probably works for a place that subsidizes partially or wholly their membership. It's kind of a funny system when you think about it.
- JStanton617 11y agoTry $230
- A_COMPUTER 11y agoThe article didn't mention that this is also being done to short-circuit the overwhelming opposition (using nakedness as a wedge) to trans-people in locker rooms of their identified gender.
- skywhopper 11y agoI'm surprised at the comments here. I wonder how many of you experienced bullying in gym class over your body's appearance. The privacy of one's naked body is pretty important thing to a lot of people, but particularly to young teenagers, many of whom would opt out of gym class if they could, and who often enter puberty at very different ages. Even if you are or were comfortable walking around naked in front of others, it's cruel to force all people to face something that just isn't necessary. Now, I agree that "comfy couch corners" and "sexy glass escape pods" seem silly and unrealistic (albeit typical of such NYT articles) but just basic privacy for showers and dressing ought to be a no-brainer for locker rooms for any age.
- amyjess 11y agoFortunately, when I was in high school (1999-2003), guys didn't get naked in the locker room before and after PE. I don't know what the girls did, because this was years before my transition, but in the guys' locker room, nobody ever took off their underwear. We all swapped our regular clothes and our gym clothes out while leaving our boxers in place. We didn't shower, either, which is something the article mentions in passing (with a link to a more detailed article on the subject). The only time I ever saw people naked (as much as I tried not to) was on the rare occasions we'd go swimming for gym class.
- sehr 11y agoExact same years as you, the girls never fully undressed either at my HS. Some of the more bullied would try to change in the bathroom, but our PE teacher shut that down really quick for some reason.
- nkozyra 11y agoSame here. Many years later my sister became a teacher and her main complaint about teaching was "the kids stink." In retrospect I have no idea how bad I smelled after running several miles or playing kickball and then not showering because it was just not done by anybody in gym. The stigma of showering among peers was great enough that nobody seemed to care, although this may be more a symptom of a general lack of self-awareness among kids that age.
- rakePerh 11y agoThis was incredibly tart. Some of us younger millennials are not "subsidized" and scrape up the extra money per month for a gym because we are concerned about aging healthfully. I, too, bristled at the writer giving the "special snowflake millennial" dead horse another dryfuck.
- benten10 11y agoAs someone's mentioned on Twitter, I'd like a browser extension that replaces "Millennials" with 'people more youthful, more attractive, and more sexually active than us', please!
- circlefavshape 11y ago/me raises one eyebrow Prettier != more sexually active. If you're lucky you'll find this out for yourself, eventually
- benten10 11y agoI have, unfortunately, learned this already. STILL makes one not feel better about oneself, haha. But that's for a different day and a different thread on a different forum. : ) Talking of nudity, to all those 'those dang young people' arguments: how does one reconcile young people are getting more comfortable with ONLINE nudity, but less with offline. We ['millennials'] get hated on either way. There's news of snapchat and sexts, and we're told 'those damn millennials, strutting about their stuffs like they invented sex'. We get shy about nudity, and we're told 'those damn millennials. So precious, can't even stand to be naked in front of other people'. Give us a break, Olds.
- cholantesh 11y agopjc50 recommends the millennials to snake people translator [1]. I concur; it certainly improved my enjoyment of this discussion. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf?hl=en-US https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-sna...
- bryanlarsen 11y agoA large percentage of people who go to the gym go because they have body image issues. No need to make going even harder for them.
- Zikes 11y agoAs usual, the older generations fear change and subsequently lash out at the younger generations. The cycle continues.
- venomsnake 11y agoI think of myself still as the young generation since I am from the so called millennials. Generally speaking I hate dumb stuff. Giving a fuck about what someone thinks about your body is dumb. Also in the gym - nobody does. Nobody really even thinks you exist and everyone has something better to do. You get, you undress, dress and get out. Do i fear change - hardly. Privacy requires space. Space means higher rents, which mean higher fees. I personally prefer to see/show from time to time acknowledgment that penises exist outside of porn and giger works and keep the gym experience cheap.
- Zikes 11y ago> Giving a fuck about what someone thinks about your body is dumb. Giving a fuck about what someone thinks about you is the natural human condition. That's not really the point, though. Privacy isn't about having something to hide, it's about the right to choose. But if you personally prefer to stare at dongs all day, you'll still have the internet and politics.
- Jtsummers 11y ago> But if you personally prefer to stare at dongs all day, you'll still have the internet and politics. It's easy not to stare, you literally control your eyes. You can direct them upward. As a male (assuming heterosexual) do you find it impossible to not stare at women's cleavage? If you can look away from that, and you're attracted to it, then why would looking away from other men's genitals be difficult when you're not attracted to them?
- Zikes 11y agoThat was in response to "I personally prefer to see/show from time to time"
- amyjess 11y agoHaving a private changing area is something that could be very good for trans people. Now if only they'd do this for women's locker rooms, too...
- delecti 11y agoI had the same thought. I've hesitated to join a gym for that very reason.
- nsxwolf 11y agoI'm a Gen-Xer and I went to great lengths to avoid getting naked in front of classmates. I still don't like being naked in front of strangers. I cringe when I hear stories about swimming naked in high school in the 1950s.
- roneesh 11y agoI suspect a part of this is due to America's losing of a Spa culture. Korea, Russia, Germany and Scandinavian countries seem to have (comparatively) thriving cultures, which make people more comfortable being naked around each other. I do agree with the common sentiment here though, what a tired, boring trope to pillory millennials for this quirk. It's hardly ideal that they're becoming more body conscious, but it's quite a great solace to instead appreciate how much they're advocating for tolerance in our society.
- cafard 11y agoThere weren't any more spas in the US during the 1960s and 1970s, but there certainly were common showers in the locker rooms in high schools and junior high schools. For that matter, there were in the early 1980s, when a race I ran in ended at a junior high school.
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- peter303 11y ago1) It started long before millennials. Gang showers pretty much disappeared in anything built after 1990. 2) I hear the military has mostly gone private showers too. Thats how pervasive this trend it. 3) I remember school teacher friends complaining how smelly their students were. They just would not shower after gym class and still dont. These days many schools are so informal that kids just wear athletic clothes all day. 4) Other than sociological phenomena, I dont really care.
- Nadya 11y agoI'm a millennial and had no issues going to a foreign country and getting naked with complete strangers. (Japan, visiting an onsen.) The problem is with American prudish behavior and helicopter "nudity-is-bad" parenting. I agree with many of the comments below: no wonder people have body/self image issues. The only nudity they see is from porn.
- flyinghamster 11y agoWait a second. I thought that the millenials were too busy sexting one another, or at least it seems as if that was the current moral panic. Now they're afraid to be seen without clothes?
- serge2k 11y ago> “Old-timers, guys that are 60-plus, have no problem with a gang shower and whatever,” Mr. Dunkelberger said. “The Gen X-ers are a little bit more sensitive to what they’re spending and what they’re expecting. And the millennials, these are the special children. They expect all the amenities. They grew up in families that had Y.M.C.A. or country club memberships. They expect certain things. Privacy, they expect.” or maybe the naked old guy in the locker room is a common joke for a reason.
- takk309 11y agoThe concept of non-sexual nudity is very quickly disappearing in the US. I play on a co-ed hockey team and there is one gal that has no qualms about hopping in the shower with the guys. It is not weird because we all realize that it is non-sexual. That being said, in the main locker room area, I do try to minimize the amount that I expose myself to the other women that are not as comfortable, but that is out of respect for them, not my own fears.
- joesmo 11y agoMaybe I have some natural talent (doubtful), but changing under a towel is really easy and convenient, so I really don't see what all the fuss is about. I first learned the "skill" on crowded beaches.
- dogma1138 11y agoI wonder how would they deal with co-ed showers and sauna's in mainland Europe where you can have a 65 year old man steaming next to a 22 year old woman both naked and no one bats an eye.