5 ms·

Amazon full of sponsored reviews

35 points by modzu 11y ago

modzu 11y ago
i was just looking for a power bar and noticed all these 5-star reviews were done by users who received it for free: http://www.amazon.com/APC-C25B-Outlet-Saving-Filter/product-reviews/B00NTJ2QRY/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_see_all_top/187-2974287-1159157?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending http://www.amazon.com/APC-C25B-Outlet-Saving-Filter/product-... sketchy. its like back when google's ads looked just like search results
- ruffrey 11y ago
  It's an odd thing. Over the past year my wife has gotten a ton of stuff for free or near free. She just posts a review, indicating she was paid to do it (important). One example site is amzreviewtrader.com. It's so awesome to get so much stuff for free/cheap. However I'm not sure it is good for consumers. She is honest in her reviews. But you are evaluated for each item you request to review, and it would be easy for an unscrupulous reviewer to only post positive reviews to appear as a better candidate. At this point, it is so prevalent, maybe it's time for Amazon to offer something similar with tighter restrictions.
  - wangarific 11y ago
    There are a lot of these sites that give you free or cheaply priced products in return for a review, the reviews help that product listing appear higher in the Amazon search listings. There's often no requirement to disclose you got the product for cheap or free. I suspect this is Amazon's way of policing it.
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  What does this have to do with the random page you linked to on Amazon?
- modzu 11y ago
  the point is that (1) the reviews are biased. even if the reviewer tries to be truthful, the fact that they received the item for free may impact their rating. the fact that at the few samples i checked, every rating was 5 stars, suggests as much to me. this is uncontroversial (cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_bias). this is separate from the issue that the reviewers themselves are "selected" (is this algorithm totally transparent? is it purely based on their helpfulness rating?) creating a biased pool of reviews as well (2) the reviews, despite having a subtitle indicating that they are part of the vine program, look and read in every other way like a normal review. it was not until i had read several reviews before i noticed the vine program disclaimer. also the star rating includes these vine reviews, which generally serve as an at-a-glance rating for an item. no doubt the intent is to make the origin of these reviews non-obvious to the casual observer. in other words, it is misleading. it may not be a new phenomenon, and surely it happens in other domains as well, but it is discouraging. it would be nice to see amazon set higher standards, perhaps separating paid from unpaid reviews more clearly. im glad at least that some people are benefiting from the free stuff ;)
daveguy 11y ago
I'm so confused. Yes, amazon is full of sponsored reviews. But how is this link to a Vine Voice program that they are starting related to the fact that there's a bunch of sponsored reviews? Is it based on this blurb? -- Do Vine Voices receive products before they are released? Yes. Some participating vendors will enroll pre-release products for Voices to review prior to launch.
- rdudek 11y ago
  I thought they had that program for a while now. At least, I remember reading about it some odd years ago and heard it was invite-only type of deal.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  The reviewer doesn't pay for the product they are reviewing. The review is sponsored by the vendor and Amazon.
panglott 11y ago
One problem with Amazon is the large number of items for which there is no review at all. There are a variety of reasons why there might not be a review (it might simply be obscure). But when the site has so many reviews of other products, it's hard to buy a product when there is no review of it at all.
strickjb9 11y ago
A reviewer's ranking is determined by the number of helpful votes from other customers. Then how do you prevent sellers from spamming downvotes against negative reviews? At least for me, Amazon has been slipping. Product prices have gone up to close-to-retail prices. Quick shipping is great but the cost is baked in to the price more so than the annual Prime membership fee which has been used to extend other prime services that I don't care so much about. And now, I can't trust reviews.
- runholm 11y ago
  > Then how do you prevent sellers from spamming downvotes against negative reviews? Sellers attempting to manipulate reviews is present in regular reviews as well. It's got nothing to do with the difference between voice reviews and regular reviews. This is a problem Amazon hopefully (and probably) is addressing already with software to detect it.
- vosper 11y ago
  It doesn't bother me at all that Amazon prices are near to retail - for me the convenience and ease of one online store for everything still beats physical shopping, for most things. The reviews are now a real problem, though. I think it goes way beyond the Vine Voices program, too - I've seen products with page after page of 5 star reviews, each with a note at the bottom along the lines of "I received this product for free in exchange for my honest opinion". I don't recall these being identified as Vine Voices, they were just "normal" users. Whether sellers are directly contacting normal users outside of the Vine Voices program, or whether the reviews are just straight up spam or paid shills I don't know, though I'd bet it's a bit of both.
- Shivetya 11y ago
  I just read in reverse rating. It is pretty easy to determine the petty reviews or one off issues. If I am still not sure there is always google to see what people think, usually appending sucks, problems, or junk, to the product name
DanBC 11y ago
It'd be interesting to see if the UK regulator wants to step in and look at this. In the UK promotional content must be clearly identified before the user clicks it or views it. For a promotional review that means the first sentence should be something like "I got a free sample in return for this review". They have regulated Youtube promotional videos. https://www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Media-Centre/2014/Making-ads-Clear-The-challenge-for-advertisers-and-vloggers.aspx https://www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Media-Centre/2014/Maki... http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/26/vloggers-must-tell-fans-paid-adverts-asa-rules http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/26/vloggers-must-t...
- simonbarker87 11y ago
  That's exactly what they do, see this review on a Launch Pad product: http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2AD8Q7L21XJ03/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00Y2ERFUI&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=&store= http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2AD8Q7L21XJ03/ref=cm_cr_dp_t...
- rdudek 11y ago
  But it's not a promotional content because your reviews can be negative. It's really based on the quality of review and how many people find it helpful.
  - adamc 11y ago
    Do they offer the same review opportunities to those who provide highly ranked negative reviews?
    - rdudek 11y ago
      Yes, it's based on the quality of review and how helpful people found it. Under each review, there is a voting type thing where you can click if review was helpful or not.
simonbarker87 11y ago
All Vine reviews are marked with a Vine Voice tag to indicate they came from that program. It's only open to people with Amazon Vendor status rather than Seller and the reviewer is under no obligation to to leave a positive review. For people who are looking for their first few reviews it can be a really valuable service.
arien 11y ago
Vine reviews are marked in green, so you know in advance where you're getting into if you read them. Although most of the ones I've found are actually quite fair and honest and rather in line with the non-Vine ones. This has been going for years, btw. Why is it now an issue/being brought forward?
throwawaylalala 11y ago
Amazon seller here- Yes, it's true. Like many people said here the reviewers must state that they're being given the product at a discount for their review....but even according to Amazon TOS, you're not requiring that they even leave you a review. Just asking nicely. Amazon is a search engine for optimizing sales. Amazon's search engine heavily ranks reviews in determining order (because listings with reviews convert at a higher rate). It's hard to get a customer to write a review. As an example, we have a product that we've sold literally thousands of and we have a big fat SINGLE review. It's not a highly competitive niche, so we do well without more reviews. Other products we need at least 5-10 reviews to get on the first few pages. Not the first spot, the first few pages (and the first three or four listings get the lion's share of the sales).
- ascendantlogic 11y ago
  The problem is that most people only feel like sharing their thoughts and feelings when something has pissed them off. Otherwise they're just carrying on with their lives.
  - throwawaylalala 11y ago
    Completely understand (I do the same). Hence, the need for paid reviews. Especially the less "life changing"/important it is to you.
    - modzu 11y ago
      i agree the reviews left to just the angry people would be unbalanced, but an actual solution needs to be unbiased. perhaps rather than just "purchasing good reviews" a vendor could encourage [more] reviews by including a voucher or something on amazon that could only be redeemed after leaving a review. then you're soliciting feedback from hopefully more users, good or bad. obv amazon and the vendors want less negative reviews in general because $$, so perhaps a genuine solution isnt really in anybodys interest except the end user/consumer (who might get annoyed to a point they go somewhere else, as i have done since i now consider amazon's reviews to be worthless)
radiorental 11y ago
A little annecdote. I was backed a kickstarter project that shipped very late and missing features. I moved on but noted this interesting 'war' between the backers and vendor when the product started shipping on Amazon. People were so bitter they flooded the product page with 1 star reviews. The company responded with fake 5 star reviews. Then the backers coordinated on the Kickstarter comments page to vote down the fake reviews. Top 'real' review; 1 star Bad end to end support from Lima. By Amazon Customer on August 10, 2015 Lima technologies will not respond to you about tech support questions or questions regarding their licensing once you have the product in hand. They will refuse to respond on any media you attempt to contact them on. It's been very poorly handled. Buried 'fake' review; 5 stars Excellent Private/Personal Cloud Device ByHenry Westbrookon November 19, 2015 Color: Blue Excellent Cloud Device. It works as specified. Lima is very easy to setup and administer. Well worth your purchase dollars!! It will be interesting to watch the company grows this product in the future http://www.amazon.com/Lima-Private-Device-Smartphone-Tablet/dp/B00WMKBNGQ http://www.amazon.com/Lima-Private-Device-Smartphone-Tablet/...
grogenaut 11y ago
Would you be mad if Benson Leung (http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/04/google-pixel-engineer-vs-shoddy-usb-type-c-cables/ http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/04/google-pixel-engineer-vs-...) was being sent cables to review? Just based on his public review and shopping history he'd be an obvious candidate for this program (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Benson+Leung&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3ABenson+Leung http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3D...). Also note that these reviewers only get free product, they don't get paid. Also in some areas they have to pay the sales tax on the items they are getting. So in fact they're Paying to review things.
dang 11y ago
Please do not use the titles of HN submissions to editorialize. If you want to comment, the way to do so is by commenting in the thread, on the same level as others.

35 points by modzu 11y ago

modzu 11y ago

i was just looking for a power bar and noticed all these 5-star reviews were done by users who received it for free: http://www.amazon.com/APC-C25B-Outlet-Saving-Filter/product-reviews/B00NTJ2QRY/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_see_all_top/187-2974287-1159157?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending http://www.amazon.com/APC-C25B-Outlet-Saving-Filter/product-... sketchy. its like back when google's ads looked just like search results

ruffrey 11y ago
It's an odd thing. Over the past year my wife has gotten a ton of stuff for free or near free. She just posts a review, indicating she was paid to do it (important). One example site is amzreviewtrader.com. It's so awesome to get so much stuff for free/cheap. However I'm not sure it is good for consumers. She is honest in her reviews. But you are evaluated for each item you request to review, and it would be easy for an unscrupulous reviewer to only post positive reviews to appear as a better candidate. At this point, it is so prevalent, maybe it's time for Amazon to offer something similar with tighter restrictions.
- wangarific 11y ago
  There are a lot of these sites that give you free or cheaply priced products in return for a review, the reviews help that product listing appear higher in the Amazon search listings. There's often no requirement to disclose you got the product for cheap or free. I suspect this is Amazon's way of policing it.
jasonlotito 11y ago
What does this have to do with the random page you linked to on Amazon?
modzu 11y ago
the point is that (1) the reviews are biased. even if the reviewer tries to be truthful, the fact that they received the item for free may impact their rating. the fact that at the few samples i checked, every rating was 5 stars, suggests as much to me. this is uncontroversial (cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_bias). this is separate from the issue that the reviewers themselves are "selected" (is this algorithm totally transparent? is it purely based on their helpfulness rating?) creating a biased pool of reviews as well (2) the reviews, despite having a subtitle indicating that they are part of the vine program, look and read in every other way like a normal review. it was not until i had read several reviews before i noticed the vine program disclaimer. also the star rating includes these vine reviews, which generally serve as an at-a-glance rating for an item. no doubt the intent is to make the origin of these reviews non-obvious to the casual observer. in other words, it is misleading. it may not be a new phenomenon, and surely it happens in other domains as well, but it is discouraging. it would be nice to see amazon set higher standards, perhaps separating paid from unpaid reviews more clearly. im glad at least that some people are benefiting from the free stuff ;)

daveguy 11y ago

I'm so confused. Yes, amazon is full of sponsored reviews. But how is this link to a Vine Voice program that they are starting related to the fact that there's a bunch of sponsored reviews? Is it based on this blurb? -- Do Vine Voices receive products before they are released? Yes. Some participating vendors will enroll pre-release products for Voices to review prior to launch.

rdudek 11y ago
I thought they had that program for a while now. At least, I remember reading about it some odd years ago and heard it was invite-only type of deal.
jsprogrammer 11y ago
The reviewer doesn't pay for the product they are reviewing. The review is sponsored by the vendor and Amazon.

panglott 11y ago

One problem with Amazon is the large number of items for which there is no review at all. There are a variety of reasons why there might not be a review (it might simply be obscure). But when the site has so many reviews of other products, it's hard to buy a product when there is no review of it at all.

strickjb9 11y ago

A reviewer's ranking is determined by the number of helpful votes from other customers. Then how do you prevent sellers from spamming downvotes against negative reviews? At least for me, Amazon has been slipping. Product prices have gone up to close-to-retail prices. Quick shipping is great but the cost is baked in to the price more so than the annual Prime membership fee which has been used to extend other prime services that I don't care so much about. And now, I can't trust reviews.

runholm 11y ago
> Then how do you prevent sellers from spamming downvotes against negative reviews? Sellers attempting to manipulate reviews is present in regular reviews as well. It's got nothing to do with the difference between voice reviews and regular reviews. This is a problem Amazon hopefully (and probably) is addressing already with software to detect it.
vosper 11y ago
It doesn't bother me at all that Amazon prices are near to retail - for me the convenience and ease of one online store for everything still beats physical shopping, for most things. The reviews are now a real problem, though. I think it goes way beyond the Vine Voices program, too - I've seen products with page after page of 5 star reviews, each with a note at the bottom along the lines of "I received this product for free in exchange for my honest opinion". I don't recall these being identified as Vine Voices, they were just "normal" users. Whether sellers are directly contacting normal users outside of the Vine Voices program, or whether the reviews are just straight up spam or paid shills I don't know, though I'd bet it's a bit of both.
Shivetya 11y ago
I just read in reverse rating. It is pretty easy to determine the petty reviews or one off issues. If I am still not sure there is always google to see what people think, usually appending sucks, problems, or junk, to the product name

DanBC 11y ago

It'd be interesting to see if the UK regulator wants to step in and look at this. In the UK promotional content must be clearly identified before the user clicks it or views it. For a promotional review that means the first sentence should be something like "I got a free sample in return for this review". They have regulated Youtube promotional videos. https://www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Media-Centre/2014/Making-ads-Clear-The-challenge-for-advertisers-and-vloggers.aspx https://www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Media-Centre/2014/Maki... http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/26/vloggers-must-tell-fans-paid-adverts-asa-rules http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/26/vloggers-must-t...

simonbarker87 11y ago
That's exactly what they do, see this review on a Launch Pad product: http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2AD8Q7L21XJ03/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00Y2ERFUI&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=&store= http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2AD8Q7L21XJ03/ref=cm_cr_dp_t...
rdudek 11y ago
But it's not a promotional content because your reviews can be negative. It's really based on the quality of review and how many people find it helpful.
- adamc 11y ago
  Do they offer the same review opportunities to those who provide highly ranked negative reviews?
  - rdudek 11y ago
    Yes, it's based on the quality of review and how helpful people found it. Under each review, there is a voting type thing where you can click if review was helpful or not.

simonbarker87 11y ago

All Vine reviews are marked with a Vine Voice tag to indicate they came from that program. It's only open to people with Amazon Vendor status rather than Seller and the reviewer is under no obligation to to leave a positive review. For people who are looking for their first few reviews it can be a really valuable service.

arien 11y ago

Vine reviews are marked in green, so you know in advance where you're getting into if you read them. Although most of the ones I've found are actually quite fair and honest and rather in line with the non-Vine ones. This has been going for years, btw. Why is it now an issue/being brought forward?

throwawaylalala 11y ago

Amazon seller here- Yes, it's true. Like many people said here the reviewers must state that they're being given the product at a discount for their review....but even according to Amazon TOS, you're not requiring that they even leave you a review. Just asking nicely. Amazon is a search engine for optimizing sales. Amazon's search engine heavily ranks reviews in determining order (because listings with reviews convert at a higher rate). It's hard to get a customer to write a review. As an example, we have a product that we've sold literally thousands of and we have a big fat SINGLE review. It's not a highly competitive niche, so we do well without more reviews. Other products we need at least 5-10 reviews to get on the first few pages. Not the first spot, the first few pages (and the first three or four listings get the lion's share of the sales).

ascendantlogic 11y ago
The problem is that most people only feel like sharing their thoughts and feelings when something has pissed them off. Otherwise they're just carrying on with their lives.
- throwawaylalala 11y ago
  Completely understand (I do the same). Hence, the need for paid reviews. Especially the less "life changing"/important it is to you.
  - modzu 11y ago
    i agree the reviews left to just the angry people would be unbalanced, but an actual solution needs to be unbiased. perhaps rather than just "purchasing good reviews" a vendor could encourage [more] reviews by including a voucher or something on amazon that could only be redeemed after leaving a review. then you're soliciting feedback from hopefully more users, good or bad. obv amazon and the vendors want less negative reviews in general because $$, so perhaps a genuine solution isnt really in anybodys interest except the end user/consumer (who might get annoyed to a point they go somewhere else, as i have done since i now consider amazon's reviews to be worthless)

radiorental 11y ago

A little annecdote. I was backed a kickstarter project that shipped very late and missing features. I moved on but noted this interesting 'war' between the backers and vendor when the product started shipping on Amazon. People were so bitter they flooded the product page with 1 star reviews. The company responded with fake 5 star reviews. Then the backers coordinated on the Kickstarter comments page to vote down the fake reviews. Top 'real' review; 1 star Bad end to end support from Lima. By Amazon Customer on August 10, 2015 Lima technologies will not respond to you about tech support questions or questions regarding their licensing once you have the product in hand. They will refuse to respond on any media you attempt to contact them on. It's been very poorly handled. Buried 'fake' review; 5 stars Excellent Private/Personal Cloud Device ByHenry Westbrookon November 19, 2015 Color: Blue Excellent Cloud Device. It works as specified. Lima is very easy to setup and administer. Well worth your purchase dollars!! It will be interesting to watch the company grows this product in the future http://www.amazon.com/Lima-Private-Device-Smartphone-Tablet/dp/B00WMKBNGQ http://www.amazon.com/Lima-Private-Device-Smartphone-Tablet/...

grogenaut 11y ago

Would you be mad if Benson Leung (http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/04/google-pixel-engineer-vs-shoddy-usb-type-c-cables/ http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/04/google-pixel-engineer-vs-...) was being sent cables to review? Just based on his public review and shopping history he'd be an obvious candidate for this program (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Benson+Leung&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3ABenson+Leung http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3D...). Also note that these reviewers only get free product, they don't get paid. Also in some areas they have to pay the sales tax on the items they are getting. So in fact they're Paying to review things.

dang 11y ago

Please do not use the titles of HN submissions to editorialize. If you want to comment, the way to do so is by commenting in the thread, on the same level as others.