5 ms·

> Also: Wall Street is full of educated guys who are outright criminals. That is "white-collar crime" which is a different thing entirely. It revolves around e

> Also: Wall Street is full of educated guys who are outright criminals. That is "white-collar crime" which is a different thing entirely. It revolves around exploiting the loopholes around laws, rather than actually breaking them. He is talking about "blue-collar crime" which is about outright breaking the laws. In the white crimes, no statesman can punish you since there is no legal evidence against you - the issues are with the legal framework.

rdl 11y ago
There is a lot of white collar crime, vs just stuff people whine about at occupy because it is unfair, which involves breaking rules, laws, etc., but depends on not being able to be detected, identified as a crime, identified as a suspect, located, sufficiently chargeable according to a GJ or civil suit, not meeting evidentiary standard for conviction, pleading to something small, or reward outweighing risk-adjusted cost. (In decreasing order of ideal white collar crime).
iolothebard 11y ago
As a former auditor, your "no legal evidence" is comically wrong. They own the people that would prosecute them.
marcoperaza 11y ago
Your definition of white-collar crime is way off the mark. White-collar crime is real crime. Fraud, embezzlement, and money laundering are not "loopholes around laws", they are crimes just like murder, larceny, and rape. The government brings prosecutions all the time, and there are plenty of white-collar criminals in prison and paying hefty fines. The absence of violence (murder, rape, assault, robbery, etc.) or physical force against property (burglary, grand theft auto, etc.) is what defines a white-collar crime. They involve abuses of trust. "White-collar" just refers to the fact that people in white-collar professions are typically the ones have enough power entrusted to them to be able to commit these crimes. Of course, there's no perfect taxonomy and you can argue all day about whether a particular crime is white-collar or blue-collar.
- ectoplasm 11y ago
  One aspect of the difference is that the physical force and violence with white collar crime are indirect / externalized, because the crimes involve manipulation of intangibles.
tim333 11y ago
I don't think that's generally true - 'white collar crime' is used to refer to bankers etc. breaking the law. It's just a) hard to prosecute and b) the politicians are unmotivated to pursue it as it's their mates c) it's often institutional, eg HSBC was involved in money laundering but which individuals do you go after? If you're just looking as using loop holes probably most do that and would be annoyed it you call them criminals.
- marcoperaza 11y ago
  White-collar crime is also fundamentally different from violent crime and larceny, since it doesn't involve the use of physical force or violence. It's good to have the government protect people against abuses of trust, but it's secondary to protecting people against violence and theft.
llamamamamana 11y ago
Your understanding is completely incorrect. White collar crime is real, actual crime and violation of real, actual laws. It refers to non-violent, financially motivated crimes. But they're real crimes.

rdl 11y ago

There is a lot of white collar crime, vs just stuff people whine about at occupy because it is unfair, which involves breaking rules, laws, etc., but depends on not being able to be detected, identified as a crime, identified as a suspect, located, sufficiently chargeable according to a GJ or civil suit, not meeting evidentiary standard for conviction, pleading to something small, or reward outweighing risk-adjusted cost. (In decreasing order of ideal white collar crime).

iolothebard 11y ago

As a former auditor, your "no legal evidence" is comically wrong. They own the people that would prosecute them.

marcoperaza 11y ago

Your definition of white-collar crime is way off the mark. White-collar crime is real crime. Fraud, embezzlement, and money laundering are not "loopholes around laws", they are crimes just like murder, larceny, and rape. The government brings prosecutions all the time, and there are plenty of white-collar criminals in prison and paying hefty fines. The absence of violence (murder, rape, assault, robbery, etc.) or physical force against property (burglary, grand theft auto, etc.) is what defines a white-collar crime. They involve abuses of trust. "White-collar" just refers to the fact that people in white-collar professions are typically the ones have enough power entrusted to them to be able to commit these crimes. Of course, there's no perfect taxonomy and you can argue all day about whether a particular crime is white-collar or blue-collar.

ectoplasm 11y ago
One aspect of the difference is that the physical force and violence with white collar crime are indirect / externalized, because the crimes involve manipulation of intangibles.

tim333 11y ago

I don't think that's generally true - 'white collar crime' is used to refer to bankers etc. breaking the law. It's just a) hard to prosecute and b) the politicians are unmotivated to pursue it as it's their mates c) it's often institutional, eg HSBC was involved in money laundering but which individuals do you go after? If you're just looking as using loop holes probably most do that and would be annoyed it you call them criminals.

marcoperaza 11y ago
White-collar crime is also fundamentally different from violent crime and larceny, since it doesn't involve the use of physical force or violence. It's good to have the government protect people against abuses of trust, but it's secondary to protecting people against violence and theft.

llamamamamana 11y ago

Your understanding is completely incorrect. White collar crime is real, actual crime and violation of real, actual laws. It refers to non-violent, financially motivated crimes. But they're real crimes.