8 ms·

I've worked for startups as a full-stack dev for about 5 years, and spent the last year trying to land a position in as a technical manager. This specific pursu

by supjeff 11y ago

I've worked for startups as a full-stack dev for about 5 years, and spent the last year trying to land a position in as a technical manager. This specific pursuit has lead to some of the most bullshit encounters I've had with startups. What are some of your bullshit experiences?

sokoloff 11y ago
In the phrase "technical manager", technical is an adjective; the noun is manager. What would lead you to expect a smooth path to being hired as a tech manager without tech management experience? It's a different job and the skills required to succeed have less overlap than many devs think.
- supjeff 11y ago
  I've been "Lead Dev" for 6 years, and had the responsibility of an actual manager without any of the budget/resourcing ability that's necessary to manage well. I've successfully launched lots of products and platforms with teams of 5-7 people, and had a good tenure earlier this year as a CTO with a team of 5. I would have stayed in that position if the founders hadn't closed it down.
- hodgesrm 11y ago
  By your logic it is hard to see how anyone technically competent could be promoted into management. Good luck with that.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    "hired as" was intentionally chosen wording. IME, the easiest path is within a company, not in a new hire situation. You take someone with demonstrated technical skill/credibility, a track record of success, and a desire to lead and you give them progressively more management tasks, culminating in a formal role change to manager. They already know the company, the team, the codebase, the business, etc. and it's much easier for them to step back into a pure technical role if it doesn't work out or if they hate it. I've had extremely "good luck with that". It's much riskier to take a fresh new hire with no management experience into a tech manager role at a new-to-them company.
    - UK-AL 11y ago
      The funny thing is, founders in many cases are exactly that Straight into those positions
    - UK-AL 11y ago
      The funny thing is, founders in many cases are exactly that Straight into those positions
- ToPutItBluntly 11y ago
  Every single manager I have had in the SF Bay Area is at least one position up from where they would be anywhere else in the country. This area has a reputation for being the best place to start a career. Well it also should have the reputation for being the best place to jump into management. Unfortunately, all of these managers also got in through networking not demonstrated ability. So to the person that wants to jump into management, you need to focus much more on networking and less on applying to open positions. If you can't get in through networking, you need to put in the long slog to get in through working at the same employer (and likely suffering on the pay front until you make it into management and have enough experience there to jump).
  - supjeff 11y ago
    Good advice. Thanks :)
jacquesm 11y ago
My best one to date: In early 2002 we got an offer of a well-funded start-up to take over our company. We had the technology, they had the sales, the marketing and the $. The CEO met me in an office in SV so lavish it would not have been out of place as a Ferrari showroom. Halfway during the meeting - we didn't hit it off all that well - he made the momentous announcement that if we did not accept his offer we'd be going on a head-on collision course for a game of chicken and he had just thrown away his steering wheel. I just laughed, bade my farewells. They failed spectacularly (not a bankruptcy but the service was shut down) several months later after burning through a very large fraction of $30M. What puzzles me to this date is what he thought he was trying to accomplish by showing me that he was a reckless cowboy with very little sense for business relations but it certainly wasn't going to end in a partnership with him 'at the wheel' (since he'd just thrown that out). He's still around, selling toothpaste.
- S4M 11y ago
  Maybe he knew that he was going to get bankrupt soon and tried to bluff and scare you into accepting his acquisition offer, so he would get your technology on favorable terms and look good to his investors.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    They were not about to go bankrupt at that point (they never did, they blew through a very large amount of money in no time flat, then this guy got thrown out, a more seasoned CEO was attracted who concluded after a serious rescue attempt that it was pointless). So any kind of existential threat probably was still over the horizon at that point, they never actually went bust they simply shut down.
jessedhillon 11y ago
One that I saw on a startup founders mailing list several years back: --- founder: I have a modest, growing business, but the marketing costs are rather high. What can to do to bring that cost down? wannabe-founder: whoa, you really failed to validate the core concept and establish your basic value prop. You're going to see an astronomical CAC until you ultimately pivot and achieve LGTM or BBQ. I'd recommend you shut down and find another vertical.
- HiLo 11y ago
  This really resonates with me. Without ranting, I kind of think a lot of wannabe's have been sold a dream and a formula, and when it doesn't work, they blame the dream (it's always been 1 in 1,000,000 odds!), or the formula (as per above), rather than the fact they don't have any business or technical savvy.
- daveguy 11y ago
  I had to look up the alphabet soup, but couldn't find everything. CAC : Cost to Aquire a Customer LGTM : Looks Good To Me? BBQ : ? Not a clue other than a delicious way to prepare meat. Maybe something Quality?
  - jessedhillon 11y ago
    Heh yeah I was trying to convey the gist rather than the actual conversation. He threw a bunch of acronyms at the guy, quoted him the lean startup recipe and with a straight face, told a guy with a viable, profitable business to fold and start over.
    - daveguy 11y ago
      Hah! Thank you. I'm sure the actual barrage of acronyms were just as relevant!
    - daveguy 11y ago
      I would like to make up an businessy acronym for BBQ. BBQ : Business to Business Quotient (or Quantity). A measure of how much of your income comes from B2B transactions as opposed to direct to consumer transactions.
eitally 11y ago
If you're still looking, send me a note and we'll talk. I'm currently looking for a full-stack dev who's comfortable leading projects & interacting with both customers & biz execs.
- supjeff 11y ago
  How do I contact you? My email address is marshall.ent@gmail.com

by supjeff 11y ago

sokoloff 11y ago

In the phrase "technical manager", technical is an adjective; the noun is manager. What would lead you to expect a smooth path to being hired as a tech manager without tech management experience? It's a different job and the skills required to succeed have less overlap than many devs think.

supjeff 11y ago
I've been "Lead Dev" for 6 years, and had the responsibility of an actual manager without any of the budget/resourcing ability that's necessary to manage well. I've successfully launched lots of products and platforms with teams of 5-7 people, and had a good tenure earlier this year as a CTO with a team of 5. I would have stayed in that position if the founders hadn't closed it down.
hodgesrm 11y ago
By your logic it is hard to see how anyone technically competent could be promoted into management. Good luck with that.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  "hired as" was intentionally chosen wording. IME, the easiest path is within a company, not in a new hire situation. You take someone with demonstrated technical skill/credibility, a track record of success, and a desire to lead and you give them progressively more management tasks, culminating in a formal role change to manager. They already know the company, the team, the codebase, the business, etc. and it's much easier for them to step back into a pure technical role if it doesn't work out or if they hate it. I've had extremely "good luck with that". It's much riskier to take a fresh new hire with no management experience into a tech manager role at a new-to-them company.
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    The funny thing is, founders in many cases are exactly that Straight into those positions
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    The funny thing is, founders in many cases are exactly that Straight into those positions
ToPutItBluntly 11y ago
Every single manager I have had in the SF Bay Area is at least one position up from where they would be anywhere else in the country. This area has a reputation for being the best place to start a career. Well it also should have the reputation for being the best place to jump into management. Unfortunately, all of these managers also got in through networking not demonstrated ability. So to the person that wants to jump into management, you need to focus much more on networking and less on applying to open positions. If you can't get in through networking, you need to put in the long slog to get in through working at the same employer (and likely suffering on the pay front until you make it into management and have enough experience there to jump).
- supjeff 11y ago
  Good advice. Thanks :)

jacquesm 11y ago

My best one to date: In early 2002 we got an offer of a well-funded start-up to take over our company. We had the technology, they had the sales, the marketing and the $. The CEO met me in an office in SV so lavish it would not have been out of place as a Ferrari showroom. Halfway during the meeting - we didn't hit it off all that well - he made the momentous announcement that if we did not accept his offer we'd be going on a head-on collision course for a game of chicken and he had just thrown away his steering wheel. I just laughed, bade my farewells. They failed spectacularly (not a bankruptcy but the service was shut down) several months later after burning through a very large fraction of $30M. What puzzles me to this date is what he thought he was trying to accomplish by showing me that he was a reckless cowboy with very little sense for business relations but it certainly wasn't going to end in a partnership with him 'at the wheel' (since he'd just thrown that out). He's still around, selling toothpaste.

S4M 11y ago
Maybe he knew that he was going to get bankrupt soon and tried to bluff and scare you into accepting his acquisition offer, so he would get your technology on favorable terms and look good to his investors.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  They were not about to go bankrupt at that point (they never did, they blew through a very large amount of money in no time flat, then this guy got thrown out, a more seasoned CEO was attracted who concluded after a serious rescue attempt that it was pointless). So any kind of existential threat probably was still over the horizon at that point, they never actually went bust they simply shut down.

jessedhillon 11y ago

One that I saw on a startup founders mailing list several years back: --- founder: I have a modest, growing business, but the marketing costs are rather high. What can to do to bring that cost down? wannabe-founder: whoa, you really failed to validate the core concept and establish your basic value prop. You're going to see an astronomical CAC until you ultimately pivot and achieve LGTM or BBQ. I'd recommend you shut down and find another vertical.

HiLo 11y ago
This really resonates with me. Without ranting, I kind of think a lot of wannabe's have been sold a dream and a formula, and when it doesn't work, they blame the dream (it's always been 1 in 1,000,000 odds!), or the formula (as per above), rather than the fact they don't have any business or technical savvy.
daveguy 11y ago
I had to look up the alphabet soup, but couldn't find everything. CAC : Cost to Aquire a Customer LGTM : Looks Good To Me? BBQ : ? Not a clue other than a delicious way to prepare meat. Maybe something Quality?
- jessedhillon 11y ago
  Heh yeah I was trying to convey the gist rather than the actual conversation. He threw a bunch of acronyms at the guy, quoted him the lean startup recipe and with a straight face, told a guy with a viable, profitable business to fold and start over.
  - daveguy 11y ago
    Hah! Thank you. I'm sure the actual barrage of acronyms were just as relevant!
  - daveguy 11y ago
    I would like to make up an businessy acronym for BBQ. BBQ : Business to Business Quotient (or Quantity). A measure of how much of your income comes from B2B transactions as opposed to direct to consumer transactions.

eitally 11y ago

If you're still looking, send me a note and we'll talk. I'm currently looking for a full-stack dev who's comfortable leading projects & interacting with both customers & biz execs.

supjeff 11y ago
How do I contact you? My email address is marshall.ent@gmail.com