56 ms·

The social behavior incentive: how your app can be as addictive as Facebook

9 points by mocy 17y ago

Psyonic 17y ago
Is anyone else completely turned off by most incentive devices? I don't want your damn point for leaving a comment on my friend's wall. I don't want to be "mayor" of a damn coffee shop. Ever watched a bunch of 5 year old's play before?
- DenisM 17y ago
  It's not about you, it's about users. This stuff either works on the body of users you care about or it doesn't. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.
  - Psyonic 17y ago
    This is true, but I think it's a bit more complex than that. I can hardly imagine anyone proudly telling me in person, "I'm the 'mayor' of Joe's cafe!," yet they seem to revel in it online. There's something more interesting than just my feelings here. Also: Suppose I don't feel that playing into everyone's inner narcissist for my profit is something I'd be proud of. Does that matter at all?
    - DenisM 17y ago
      Clearly you must work within the boundaries of what you find ethically acceptable - either by staying away from certain things or by expanding the boundaries. Just remember that other people have boundaries drawn in different places and arguing about the one right way to draw them is not very productive for pretty much any definition of productive we should care about on this site. You're right in that there is more going on here - the fact that you can't imagine what is clearly going in in front of you suggests that you project your system of values on other people to such an extent that it deprives you of empathy to those people. If you don't get this under control this will seriously hamper your (future) business in pretty much any area other than serving people who are exactly like you. This blindness is not likely to be confined to narcissism. People revel in all kinds of crazy stuff, but you seem to think that one kind of crazy stuff is more worthy than the other.
      - Psyonic 17y ago
        It's not that I consider it unethical: it's not wrong, but it does seem like taking the easy way out, rather than making your product strong enough to stand solidly on its own. Then again, you can't always predict how things will play out. For instance, I don't think Apple intended for the iPod and later the iPhone to target the narcissist within, but as they became popular, they became status symbols, and it happened anyway (and less artificially). To the latter half of your response, I'm working on it. Even if my original comment was a bit snarky, it was a still a prompt for conversation on the matter. I'm well aware of the popularity of things like this (Farmville, anyone?), and I'm trying to understand it. I'd be interested in your response to my suggestion that people are much more obvious about this online. While people certainly do things for status in the real world, almost all would take offense if you gave them a gold star for getting a date. Why are people so willing to cede authority (judgment) to a website? The game element doesn't seem to explain it all.
        DenisM 17y ago
        What is the opposite of the "easy way out" for you? In other words, what is your true goal? You seem to want both a financially successful product, and one that is "strong to stand on its own". My spidey senses are telling me there is a lot of baggage in that latter quote - it looks like you want your contributions to the world to be not just financially successful but also noble in a way, or real-manly (the opposite of "the easy way out"). These two are very different goals - one is of financial independence and the other one is of advancing up the Maslow's hierarchy to "Esteem" level. There are several ways to go about it: 1) Give up on the money part and set about satisfying the Esteem need by getting a very esteemed job (which may not pay very well) - policeman, polar explorer that kind of thing. 2) Get the Maslow's urge under control via artificial means, and remain absolutely cold-blooded in business. When you make enough money the urge will let go of you, and even if not you will have means and training to attack a harder, worthier problem. The first business is not the end of life. 3) Keep building the business but surrender to the urge and let it control you. It will give you a lot of staying power, but it will also periodically send you on the wild goose chase (like writing your own high-scale online storage because real men only eat what they kill). It's a very round-about way about getting there.
- coconutrandom 17y ago
  antisocial in a social network, yes. But then again we're not the target demographics of such apps.
  - Psyonic 17y ago
    indeed... feels weird to see the internet truly becoming the tool of the masses.
johnl 17y ago
I don't know if I agree with every point in the author's list but it's a good start at listing attributes that differentiates between one site and the next.

9 points by mocy 17y ago

Is anyone else completely turned off by most incentive devices? I don't want your damn point for leaving a comment on my friend's wall. I don't want to be "mayor" of a damn coffee shop. Ever watched a bunch of 5 year old's play before?

DenisM 17y ago
It's not about you, it's about users. This stuff either works on the body of users you care about or it doesn't. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.
- Psyonic 17y ago
  This is true, but I think it's a bit more complex than that. I can hardly imagine anyone proudly telling me in person, "I'm the 'mayor' of Joe's cafe!," yet they seem to revel in it online. There's something more interesting than just my feelings here. Also: Suppose I don't feel that playing into everyone's inner narcissist for my profit is something I'd be proud of. Does that matter at all?
  - DenisM 17y ago
    Clearly you must work within the boundaries of what you find ethically acceptable - either by staying away from certain things or by expanding the boundaries. Just remember that other people have boundaries drawn in different places and arguing about the one right way to draw them is not very productive for pretty much any definition of productive we should care about on this site. You're right in that there is more going on here - the fact that you can't imagine what is clearly going in in front of you suggests that you project your system of values on other people to such an extent that it deprives you of empathy to those people. If you don't get this under control this will seriously hamper your (future) business in pretty much any area other than serving people who are exactly like you. This blindness is not likely to be confined to narcissism. People revel in all kinds of crazy stuff, but you seem to think that one kind of crazy stuff is more worthy than the other.
    - Psyonic 17y ago
      It's not that I consider it unethical: it's not wrong, but it does seem like taking the easy way out, rather than making your product strong enough to stand solidly on its own. Then again, you can't always predict how things will play out. For instance, I don't think Apple intended for the iPod and later the iPhone to target the narcissist within, but as they became popular, they became status symbols, and it happened anyway (and less artificially). To the latter half of your response, I'm working on it. Even if my original comment was a bit snarky, it was a still a prompt for conversation on the matter. I'm well aware of the popularity of things like this (Farmville, anyone?), and I'm trying to understand it. I'd be interested in your response to my suggestion that people are much more obvious about this online. While people certainly do things for status in the real world, almost all would take offense if you gave them a gold star for getting a date. Why are people so willing to cede authority (judgment) to a website? The game element doesn't seem to explain it all.
      - DenisM 17y ago
        What is the opposite of the "easy way out" for you? In other words, what is your true goal? You seem to want both a financially successful product, and one that is "strong to stand on its own". My spidey senses are telling me there is a lot of baggage in that latter quote - it looks like you want your contributions to the world to be not just financially successful but also noble in a way, or real-manly (the opposite of "the easy way out"). These two are very different goals - one is of financial independence and the other one is of advancing up the Maslow's hierarchy to "Esteem" level. There are several ways to go about it: 1) Give up on the money part and set about satisfying the Esteem need by getting a very esteemed job (which may not pay very well) - policeman, polar explorer that kind of thing. 2) Get the Maslow's urge under control via artificial means, and remain absolutely cold-blooded in business. When you make enough money the urge will let go of you, and even if not you will have means and training to attack a harder, worthier problem. The first business is not the end of life. 3) Keep building the business but surrender to the urge and let it control you. It will give you a lot of staying power, but it will also periodically send you on the wild goose chase (like writing your own high-scale online storage because real men only eat what they kill). It's a very round-about way about getting there.
coconutrandom 17y ago
antisocial in a social network, yes. But then again we're not the target demographics of such apps.
- Psyonic 17y ago
  indeed... feels weird to see the internet truly becoming the tool of the masses.

johnl 17y ago

I don't know if I agree with every point in the author's list but it's a good start at listing attributes that differentiates between one site and the next.