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I used to react negatively to all the Windows + Linux bashing because I've never had issues. I also use Macs. No issues there either. They are tools and they

I used to react negatively to all the Windows + Linux bashing because I've never had issues. I also use Macs. No issues there either. They are tools and they have different personalities. I thought I was just, well, somewhat unique. Maybe something was wrong with me that I just didn't get it. I just didn't understand just how bad it was to use Windows as an engineer (and like it) and not have one iota of interest in becoming a vim guru (while still using it as needed) while rejecting graphical code editors and IDE's. So, yeah, even with over 30 years in computing and engineering I sometimes thought I was a little nuts for note getting it. That's until this year, when a contract we won gave me the opportunity to spend a non-trivial amount of time (12 to 16 hour days) inside one of the most highly regarded technology companies in the world. What I see is thousands of engineers doing amazing work and, interestingly enough, every desk has a Windows machine on it. I see IDE's everywhere and not a hint of vim. I see Linux everywhere running on virtual machines and no problems at all. I also see all kinds of other applications and the amazing way the Windows ecosystem just absolutely hums when setup and managed professionally. Not a Mac in sight. Well, actually, just a handful, out of thousands of PC's (I'm guessing >30,000). What's also interesting is I have never heard a single engineer complain or worry about anything Windows or Linux. Ever. Far more important stuff to focus on. I don't know what I can conclude from this experience other than, yeah, it works like a dream when setup correctly. In fact, some of what I've seen has caused me to rethink some of our internal setup. The other realization is that the OS largely becomes irrelevant in the context of an organization. What is important is how the web of computers, users and applications are setup and configured in order to create a larger tool-set with which to run a business. I've seen how a very large Windows deployment becomes largely transparent to an organization to the point where everyone can focus on the job at hand. It's awesome.

plinkplonk 11y ago
"inside one of the most highly regarded technology companies in the world." any reason not to name the company? I'm trying to think of a technology company where Windows (and not Mac/Linux) dominate engineering workstations and failing.
- jqm 11y ago
  Microsoft?
  - Create 11y ago
    probably wintel
- rebootthesystem 11y ago
  Sorry, I just can't name it. You have to remember that "engineering" isn't just "software engineering" or "web development". The vast majority of the engineering world does not use Mac/Linux. There are countless major engineering tools that only exist on the Windows platform and this has been the case for decades. None of what I said is to imply these platforms are inferior in any way. We use both Mac and Linux. I prefer to do web development work on Linux because, well, you are working in exactly the environment you are going to deploy on and tools like PyCharm work great under Ubuntu. Outside of that, yes, doing web dev on a Mac is the next best thing. On Windows I always have to run an Ubuntu VM, no point in jumping through hoops to make believe you have a Linux environment, a VM works great. Once you shift your focus to circuit design, layout, mechanical engineering, CAM and other high-power commercial tools, Windows is pretty much king. And, once you look at how smoothly Windows, Office, Exchange and other tools integrate at an enterprise level, well, it's hard to ignore how awesome of an environment it turns into.
  - im_down_w_otp 11y ago
    Yeah, I hadn't used Windows in many, many years, but when I did it was to run Mastercam and SolidWorks. I used it briefly to do Visual C++ and .Net CF development after that, but relatively quickly moved onto projects with a lot of open source underpinnings. That was the problem with being originally compelled to use Windows at my current job. Trying to build infrastructure automation pipelines and Erlang software on Windows that will eventually be deployed on Linux is a colossal pain in the neck.
acdha 11y ago
> I also see all kinds of other applications and the amazing way the Windows ecosystem just absolutely hums when setup and managed professionally I think most of what you're seeing comes down to this: Windows works great if you have a healthy budget, a high-quality IT team and, critically, a strong sense of mission about making users productive. Unfortunately, the average Windows user is lucky to have one of those three be true. The normal experience is indifference/incompetence, being forced to use enterprise software which has been in development for decades without once having a usability audit, arbitrary impediments being excused as security requirements, etc. In many cases, using a Mac or Linux box was popular because it was the de facto way to opt-out from the centralized muddle and, later, the rise of iOS meant that those IT departments were told to make their systems work with the CEO's new pride and joy rather than trying to customize it into uselessness.

plinkplonk 11y ago

"inside one of the most highly regarded technology companies in the world." any reason not to name the company? I'm trying to think of a technology company where Windows (and not Mac/Linux) dominate engineering workstations and failing.

jqm 11y ago
Microsoft?
- Create 11y ago
  probably wintel
rebootthesystem 11y ago
Sorry, I just can't name it. You have to remember that "engineering" isn't just "software engineering" or "web development". The vast majority of the engineering world does not use Mac/Linux. There are countless major engineering tools that only exist on the Windows platform and this has been the case for decades. None of what I said is to imply these platforms are inferior in any way. We use both Mac and Linux. I prefer to do web development work on Linux because, well, you are working in exactly the environment you are going to deploy on and tools like PyCharm work great under Ubuntu. Outside of that, yes, doing web dev on a Mac is the next best thing. On Windows I always have to run an Ubuntu VM, no point in jumping through hoops to make believe you have a Linux environment, a VM works great. Once you shift your focus to circuit design, layout, mechanical engineering, CAM and other high-power commercial tools, Windows is pretty much king. And, once you look at how smoothly Windows, Office, Exchange and other tools integrate at an enterprise level, well, it's hard to ignore how awesome of an environment it turns into.
- im_down_w_otp 11y ago
  Yeah, I hadn't used Windows in many, many years, but when I did it was to run Mastercam and SolidWorks. I used it briefly to do Visual C++ and .Net CF development after that, but relatively quickly moved onto projects with a lot of open source underpinnings. That was the problem with being originally compelled to use Windows at my current job. Trying to build infrastructure automation pipelines and Erlang software on Windows that will eventually be deployed on Linux is a colossal pain in the neck.

acdha 11y ago

> I also see all kinds of other applications and the amazing way the Windows ecosystem just absolutely hums when setup and managed professionally I think most of what you're seeing comes down to this: Windows works great if you have a healthy budget, a high-quality IT team and, critically, a strong sense of mission about making users productive. Unfortunately, the average Windows user is lucky to have one of those three be true. The normal experience is indifference/incompetence, being forced to use enterprise software which has been in development for decades without once having a usability audit, arbitrary impediments being excused as security requirements, etc. In many cases, using a Mac or Linux box was popular because it was the de facto way to opt-out from the centralized muddle and, later, the rise of iOS meant that those IT departments were told to make their systems work with the CEO's new pride and joy rather than trying to customize it into uselessness.