6 ms·

Is this a recent router? If it's 5+ years old, I think this might be one of those situations where it's time to decide to just upgrade our devices and be done w

by johnmaguire2013 11y ago

Is this a recent router? If it's 5+ years old, I think this might be one of those situations where it's time to decide to just upgrade our devices and be done with it.

nivla 11y ago
Its not a new router - Buffalo AirStation HighPower N600. However I guess I am one of those people who gets irky to replace something that is not exactly broken. Maybe once the AC specs starts showing up in the gadgets I use, I might.
paulddraper 11y ago
5 years, really? How often do I have to replace stuff that I own? My car is 25 years old (gasp) and reliable, though not designed for current emissions standards, my laptop is 8 years old and works great, though it can only run so many app-that-is-browser programs, my phone is 4 years old and works, and my router is 5 years old and still kicking, and my table saw is 10 years old and works great. I'd like to not have to replace my biggest, most expensive tools in my life every couple years, just because someone else has and thinks I should too.
- kijin 11y ago
  It's not "just because someone else has and thinks I should too". Your 25-year-old car probably emits a lot more harmful substances into the air than recent cars do, so someone could argue that you are actually harming others by continuing to drive it. Similarly, one could argue that your use of computing devices that only support outdated cryptography is harmful to other people, because it makes it difficult for everyone else to upgrade to more secure algorithms. You might not be directly forcing anyone else to make any particular choice, but your choice contributes to the perpetuation of an insecure ecosystem, just like your car contributes to air pollution in your neighborhood.
  - paulddraper 11y ago
    Your point about the car is correct, though I believe the argument on crypto is weak. I just would like to figure out how to use something for its actual lifetime. c'est la vie
    - kijin 11y ago
      Well, an obvious solution would be for manufacturers to design their products so that they actually last a long time. For computing devices, this means guaranteed software/firmware updates for at least 10 years. In the case of routers, using dd-wrt instead of some proprietary firmware that doesn't even do the job properly would be a good start.
      - paulddraper 11y ago
        "Software updates" and "last a long time are not the same". If anything, the former opposes the latter.
        kijin 11y ago
        The only thing that prevents manufacturers from offering software updates for 10+ years for computing devices (they could even make it automatic!) is a lousy business model that depends on planned obsolescence.
- pyre 11y ago
  Don't worry. Everyone has upper-middle class levels of income to be constantly replacing everything that they own. It all works out in the end. /s
- legulere 11y ago
  Do cars get twice as fast and twice as efficient every few years? Computer technology isn't made to last, because the advance simply is (still) too fast for that. Luckily with phones the support cycles seem finally to get longer, just like they have gotten with computers.
  - paulddraper 11y ago
    Oh, I know that my tools are inherently not as good as the ones today, but that's not my concern. I'm not sad that my tools from years ago aren't as good as the ones today. That's inevitable. I'm sad that many of them are useful but artificially rendered useless by decisions. For example, I had no complaints about my phone's battery life, security, or performance in 2011, my phone hasn't changed, and I use it for the same tasks. The same goes for the other items I listed.
- johnmaguire2013 11y ago
  My point isn't that you should need to replace your router every 5 years, not by any means. My point is that routers don't (for some unknown reason) typically ship with automatic self-updates. The company could just as easily ship a firmware upgrade to fix your SSL issue (why is the burden on you the owner to switch to dd-wrt?) But if that doesn't happen, should the fact that some router companies refuse to upgrade to the latest standard stop us from encrypting the web? I think no. And I think having to upgrade my router for that cause is an okay tradeoff.
  - paulddraper 11y ago
    Or...here's an idea: let me choose my security. Maybe I have a different standard for a bank then a blog, or a router config page. Or maybe I don't. You don't have to choose for me, not in this case.
    - johnmaguire2013 11y ago
      Let me ask you another question: Does your 5 year old router use a SHA1 self-signed cert? If no, what's your problem? I was legitimately curious how old OP's router was in addition to my statement. 5 years is a bit meh, but if you've got a router that doesn't support past 108.11b/g, then it's time to upgrade. Sorry.

Is this a recent router? If it's 5+ years old, I think this might be one of those situations where it's time to decide to just upgrade our devices and be done with it.

nivla 11y ago

Its not a new router - Buffalo AirStation HighPower N600. However I guess I am one of those people who gets irky to replace something that is not exactly broken. Maybe once the AC specs starts showing up in the gadgets I use, I might.

paulddraper 11y ago

5 years, really? How often do I have to replace stuff that I own? My car is 25 years old (gasp) and reliable, though not designed for current emissions standards, my laptop is 8 years old and works great, though it can only run so many app-that-is-browser programs, my phone is 4 years old and works, and my router is 5 years old and still kicking, and my table saw is 10 years old and works great. I'd like to not have to replace my biggest, most expensive tools in my life every couple years, just because someone else has and thinks I should too.

kijin 11y ago
It's not "just because someone else has and thinks I should too". Your 25-year-old car probably emits a lot more harmful substances into the air than recent cars do, so someone could argue that you are actually harming others by continuing to drive it. Similarly, one could argue that your use of computing devices that only support outdated cryptography is harmful to other people, because it makes it difficult for everyone else to upgrade to more secure algorithms. You might not be directly forcing anyone else to make any particular choice, but your choice contributes to the perpetuation of an insecure ecosystem, just like your car contributes to air pollution in your neighborhood.
- paulddraper 11y ago
  Your point about the car is correct, though I believe the argument on crypto is weak. I just would like to figure out how to use something for its actual lifetime. c'est la vie
  - kijin 11y ago
    Well, an obvious solution would be for manufacturers to design their products so that they actually last a long time. For computing devices, this means guaranteed software/firmware updates for at least 10 years. In the case of routers, using dd-wrt instead of some proprietary firmware that doesn't even do the job properly would be a good start.
    - paulddraper 11y ago
      "Software updates" and "last a long time are not the same". If anything, the former opposes the latter.
      - kijin 11y ago
        The only thing that prevents manufacturers from offering software updates for 10+ years for computing devices (they could even make it automatic!) is a lousy business model that depends on planned obsolescence.
pyre 11y ago
Don't worry. Everyone has upper-middle class levels of income to be constantly replacing everything that they own. It all works out in the end. /s
legulere 11y ago
Do cars get twice as fast and twice as efficient every few years? Computer technology isn't made to last, because the advance simply is (still) too fast for that. Luckily with phones the support cycles seem finally to get longer, just like they have gotten with computers.
- paulddraper 11y ago
  Oh, I know that my tools are inherently not as good as the ones today, but that's not my concern. I'm not sad that my tools from years ago aren't as good as the ones today. That's inevitable. I'm sad that many of them are useful but artificially rendered useless by decisions. For example, I had no complaints about my phone's battery life, security, or performance in 2011, my phone hasn't changed, and I use it for the same tasks. The same goes for the other items I listed.
johnmaguire2013 11y ago
My point isn't that you should need to replace your router every 5 years, not by any means. My point is that routers don't (for some unknown reason) typically ship with automatic self-updates. The company could just as easily ship a firmware upgrade to fix your SSL issue (why is the burden on you the owner to switch to dd-wrt?) But if that doesn't happen, should the fact that some router companies refuse to upgrade to the latest standard stop us from encrypting the web? I think no. And I think having to upgrade my router for that cause is an okay tradeoff.
- paulddraper 11y ago
  Or...here's an idea: let me choose my security. Maybe I have a different standard for a bank then a blog, or a router config page. Or maybe I don't. You don't have to choose for me, not in this case.
  - johnmaguire2013 11y ago
    Let me ask you another question: Does your 5 year old router use a SHA1 self-signed cert? If no, what's your problem? I was legitimately curious how old OP's router was in addition to my statement. 5 years is a bit meh, but if you've got a router that doesn't support past 108.11b/g, then it's time to upgrade. Sorry.