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> By October 1898, he had returned to Britain and begun his two-volume work, The River War, an account of the reconquest of the Sudan which was published the fo

by staunch 11y ago

> By October 1898, he had returned to Britain and begun his two-volume work, The River War, an account of the reconquest of the Sudan which was published the following year. In this work, Churchill warned against what he considered to be the dangers of the influence of Islam: "Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

gotchange 11y ago
- "No stronger retrograde force exists in the world." Funny that this is coming from a reactionary and status quo aficionado. - "Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith." Funny again that this is coming from a colonialist and imperialistic person. Apparently, it's bad for Islam to have expansionist and supremacist ambitions but it's OK for Britain. Hypocrisy much? - "Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled" Funny that it was the other way around for Christianity and Islam in Europe's Dark Age and Islam's Golden Age [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
- nashashmi 11y ago
  > "Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled" I think this means that Christianity is "tamed" by the doubts science has laid on it. And that science does not seem to reign Islam much.
  - gotchange 11y ago
    Muslims embraced science before Christians ever thought about it and Al-Andalus rule in Iberia and the scientific development overseen by Muslims there is a great testament to my viewpoint. Furthermore, Islam had a reformation movement albeit unsuccessful hundreds of years [0] before Christendom is engulfed in reformation debates (wars). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%CA%BFtazila https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%CA%BFtazila
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      Yes but as the Christian world was coming out of the dark ages the Islamic world went into one and has yet to emerge from it.
- Shorel 11y ago
  Your last 'funny' point is something of a tragedy for me. Everything was worse after the Siege of Baghdad.
pen2l 11y ago
Are we sure we should be getting all our lessons from historical figures? Churchill on Gandhi: Gandhi should not be released on the account of a mere threat of fasting, We should be rid of a bad man and an enemy of the Empire if he died. Churchill on using poison gas on uncivilized tribes: I cannot understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. Churchill on white race being superior: I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.
- staunch 11y ago
  Don't confuse a Wikipedia excerpt with an endorsement of the views... You missed this one: > By August 1943 Churchill refused to release shipping to send food to India. Initially during the famine he was more concerned with the civilians of Nazi-occupied Greece (who were also suffering from a famine) compared with the Bengalis, noting that the "starvation of anyhow underfed Bengalis is less serious than that of sturdy Greeks". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
  - pen2l 11y ago
    The way you said it sounded like an endorsement (if you'd said that on Reddit, the way you said it would certainly be taken as an endorsement!). But, my mistake, sorry, carry on.

by staunch 11y ago

gotchange 11y ago

- "No stronger retrograde force exists in the world." Funny that this is coming from a reactionary and status quo aficionado. - "Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith." Funny again that this is coming from a colonialist and imperialistic person. Apparently, it's bad for Islam to have expansionist and supremacist ambitions but it's OK for Britain. Hypocrisy much? - "Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled" Funny that it was the other way around for Christianity and Islam in Europe's Dark Age and Islam's Golden Age [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

nashashmi 11y ago
> "Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled" I think this means that Christianity is "tamed" by the doubts science has laid on it. And that science does not seem to reign Islam much.
- gotchange 11y ago
  Muslims embraced science before Christians ever thought about it and Al-Andalus rule in Iberia and the scientific development overseen by Muslims there is a great testament to my viewpoint. Furthermore, Islam had a reformation movement albeit unsuccessful hundreds of years [0] before Christendom is engulfed in reformation debates (wars). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%CA%BFtazila https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%CA%BFtazila
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Yes but as the Christian world was coming out of the dark ages the Islamic world went into one and has yet to emerge from it.
Shorel 11y ago
Your last 'funny' point is something of a tragedy for me. Everything was worse after the Siege of Baghdad.

pen2l 11y ago

Are we sure we should be getting all our lessons from historical figures? Churchill on Gandhi: Gandhi should not be released on the account of a mere threat of fasting, We should be rid of a bad man and an enemy of the Empire if he died. Churchill on using poison gas on uncivilized tribes: I cannot understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. Churchill on white race being superior: I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

staunch 11y ago
Don't confuse a Wikipedia excerpt with an endorsement of the views... You missed this one: > By August 1943 Churchill refused to release shipping to send food to India. Initially during the famine he was more concerned with the civilians of Nazi-occupied Greece (who were also suffering from a famine) compared with the Bengalis, noting that the "starvation of anyhow underfed Bengalis is less serious than that of sturdy Greeks". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
- pen2l 11y ago
  The way you said it sounded like an endorsement (if you'd said that on Reddit, the way you said it would certainly be taken as an endorsement!). But, my mistake, sorry, carry on.