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This article was obviously required reading in our long form journalism course in college. It's devastating that this is the kind of work that people deride now

This article was obviously required reading in our long form journalism course in college. It's devastating that this is the kind of work that people deride now for its length and verbose cadence. A piece like this is incredibly difficult to write. It doesn't just require embedding yourself in the life of a typically-unwilling subject but also to take what seems to be a random set of small anecdotes and finding the larger theme they speak to.

smacktoward 11y ago
> It's devastating that this is the kind of work that people deride now for its length and verbose cadence. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, it's the duty of the writer to communicate, and that means meeting your reader where they actually are instead of where you might wish them to be. But on the other hand, the best experiences I've had as a reader were with writers who challenged me, who forced me to really chew on their ideas instead of just sucking down a pre-digested Soylent slurry. There's probably a point in the middle of that spectrum somewhere, but I write a lot and I still have yet to discover exactly where it is.
- marincounty 11y ago
  I don't mind long--if it's well written. This essay had a beginning, middle, and end. It was obviously edited. It was a tight essay. Did I read the entire piece--no. I just don't like the man enough to spend that much time on his life. I heard one story about the man from my best friend. Since that story, I just look at Sinatra differently, and there's no magic, or mystery. That said, I skimmed the essay. It was written well enough to skim. That's all I ask for in a author. I used to think TL;DR was just an excuse, but I was wrong.
  - maehwasu 11y ago
    Don't leave us hanging; what was the story your friend told you?
ablation 11y ago
>> It's devastating that this is the kind of work that people deride now for its length and verbose cadence. Do they? Not being snarky, but longform journalism is incredibly popular at the moment, to the point where some claim that it's the most shared form of content on social media.[1] [1] http://buzzsumo.com/blog/buzzfeeds-most-shared-content-format-is-not-what-you-think/ http://buzzsumo.com/blog/buzzfeeds-most-shared-content-forma...
- dclowd9901 11y ago
  I don't know if it's popular. I think people share these to seem well-read. I don't think the majority actually read the whole article, but that's just a theory. In other words, you don't need to actually have consumed something to share it. I'd also be curious what the most shared long-form pieces of this last year were. My guess is they aren't in the tradition of long-form journalism, where the subject is the absolute focus (rather than the writer inserting themselves into the story). I'd bet the most shared pieces were around hot button or politically ferocious topics.
  - ablation 11y ago
    >> In other words, you don't need to actually have consumed something to share it. Point taken. However - and entirely anecdotally - longform content has been discussed, shared and consumed by my immediate circle of colleagues and friends in the past year or two far more than I can ever remember previously. >> I'd bet the most shared pieces were around hot button or politically ferocious topics. Maybe so. You could get a flavour for this by checking out aggregators like Longreads though: longreads.com
tunesmith 11y ago
The problem is that more recently, long-form journalism has become commoditized. I get the feeling that in the past, you wouldn't see long-form journalism unless the writer could actually do it well. I love this piece of writing, but with modern long-form on the web, too often I've had this feeling that the "long form" is just turgid padding, and there isn't really the understanding of theme, or how the whole is really supposed to exceed the sum of its parts.
- dclowd9901 11y ago
  I notice modern long-form means, "Here's what happened to me when I met this person, in 1,200 words." Pieces like Frank Sinatra Has a Cold swathe you in the life of the subject, and the writer takes a back seat. You literally will not find the words "I" or "me" used in reference to the writer once in this article. Modern day long form are vanity pieces; little more than well-written diaries or blog posts. So I definitely know where you're coming from, but I think it's simply a lack of discipline of the writers to take themselves out of the story. It's part of the reason I can't stand the Serial series.
  - azernik 11y ago
    I don't know that the insertion of the author is the problem - DFW was I think a master of the genre, and many of his pieces are completely self-absorbed.
  - conistonwater 11y ago
    Sorry, I know it's kind of mean and doesn't really matter to your point, but I see three uses of "I" that reference the article's author: > I had seen something of this Sicilian side… > And as I watched this ritualistic scene, I got the impression that Frank Sinatra was… I didn't find any "me". In fact, Language Log had a number of posts on pronoun counts and how people easily get them wrong and how they don't mean much anyway (https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Alanguagelog.ldc.upenn.edu+pronoun+counts https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Alanguagelog.ldc.upenn....). It doesn't affect your point, of course, but the same point could be made just as well without counting pronouns.
  - 11y ago

smacktoward 11y ago

> It's devastating that this is the kind of work that people deride now for its length and verbose cadence. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, it's the duty of the writer to communicate, and that means meeting your reader where they actually are instead of where you might wish them to be. But on the other hand, the best experiences I've had as a reader were with writers who challenged me, who forced me to really chew on their ideas instead of just sucking down a pre-digested Soylent slurry. There's probably a point in the middle of that spectrum somewhere, but I write a lot and I still have yet to discover exactly where it is.

marincounty 11y ago
I don't mind long--if it's well written. This essay had a beginning, middle, and end. It was obviously edited. It was a tight essay. Did I read the entire piece--no. I just don't like the man enough to spend that much time on his life. I heard one story about the man from my best friend. Since that story, I just look at Sinatra differently, and there's no magic, or mystery. That said, I skimmed the essay. It was written well enough to skim. That's all I ask for in a author. I used to think TL;DR was just an excuse, but I was wrong.
- maehwasu 11y ago
  Don't leave us hanging; what was the story your friend told you?

ablation 11y ago

>> It's devastating that this is the kind of work that people deride now for its length and verbose cadence. Do they? Not being snarky, but longform journalism is incredibly popular at the moment, to the point where some claim that it's the most shared form of content on social media.[1] [1] http://buzzsumo.com/blog/buzzfeeds-most-shared-content-format-is-not-what-you-think/ http://buzzsumo.com/blog/buzzfeeds-most-shared-content-forma...

dclowd9901 11y ago
I don't know if it's popular. I think people share these to seem well-read. I don't think the majority actually read the whole article, but that's just a theory. In other words, you don't need to actually have consumed something to share it. I'd also be curious what the most shared long-form pieces of this last year were. My guess is they aren't in the tradition of long-form journalism, where the subject is the absolute focus (rather than the writer inserting themselves into the story). I'd bet the most shared pieces were around hot button or politically ferocious topics.
- ablation 11y ago
  >> In other words, you don't need to actually have consumed something to share it. Point taken. However - and entirely anecdotally - longform content has been discussed, shared and consumed by my immediate circle of colleagues and friends in the past year or two far more than I can ever remember previously. >> I'd bet the most shared pieces were around hot button or politically ferocious topics. Maybe so. You could get a flavour for this by checking out aggregators like Longreads though: longreads.com

tunesmith 11y ago

The problem is that more recently, long-form journalism has become commoditized. I get the feeling that in the past, you wouldn't see long-form journalism unless the writer could actually do it well. I love this piece of writing, but with modern long-form on the web, too often I've had this feeling that the "long form" is just turgid padding, and there isn't really the understanding of theme, or how the whole is really supposed to exceed the sum of its parts.

dclowd9901 11y ago
I notice modern long-form means, "Here's what happened to me when I met this person, in 1,200 words." Pieces like Frank Sinatra Has a Cold swathe you in the life of the subject, and the writer takes a back seat. You literally will not find the words "I" or "me" used in reference to the writer once in this article. Modern day long form are vanity pieces; little more than well-written diaries or blog posts. So I definitely know where you're coming from, but I think it's simply a lack of discipline of the writers to take themselves out of the story. It's part of the reason I can't stand the Serial series.
- azernik 11y ago
  I don't know that the insertion of the author is the problem - DFW was I think a master of the genre, and many of his pieces are completely self-absorbed.
- conistonwater 11y ago
  Sorry, I know it's kind of mean and doesn't really matter to your point, but I see three uses of "I" that reference the article's author: > I had seen something of this Sicilian side… > And as I watched this ritualistic scene, I got the impression that Frank Sinatra was… I didn't find any "me". In fact, Language Log had a number of posts on pronoun counts and how people easily get them wrong and how they don't mean much anyway (https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Alanguagelog.ldc.upenn.edu+pronoun+counts https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Alanguagelog.ldc.upenn....). It doesn't affect your point, of course, but the same point could be made just as well without counting pronouns.
- 11y ago