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Things are never perfect. The best we can hope for is that people work hard and are good to each other. The founding fathers had their fair share of flaws just

Things are never perfect. The best we can hope for is that people work hard and are good to each other. The founding fathers had their fair share of flaws just like any leader today, and yet they managed to turn a rebellion into something great. The real tragedy today is that there are many Americans who want a monopoly on American identity, instead of embracing the source of America's strength: our ability to assimilate people and ideas into something greater than the sum of its parts (and genocical imperialism and slave labor helped too)

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
The real tragedy today is that there are many Americans who want a monopoly on American identity American identity is much more heterogeneous today than ever before, in no small part thanks to ecumenism.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  Broadly, yes. But let's not mince words: the white and largely male-dominated subset of Americans see themselves as the vanguards of the true - and dying - standard of what it means to be American. Therefore, they would rather fight scorched-earth against alternative lifestyles and skin colors over the meaning of what makes up an American rather than work together to ensure national prosperity in a turbulent world order.
the-dude 11y ago
As long as they are white and christian, yes. This week I learned on this very forum the US opened up to non-EU immigrants only after 1965? That is what they are referring to, right?
- simoncion 11y ago
  > This week I learned on this very forum the US opened up to non-EU immigrants only after 1965? What? The stereotype of Asian laborers working (and dying) to build the great Western railroads is grounded in a fair bit of truth. Moreover, San Francisco's Chinatown acquired the Asian residents that lead to its name long before 1965.
  - the-dude 11y ago
    I stand corrected: they were just second class citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_laws_concerning_immigration_and_naturalization_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_laws_concerning_imm...
    - simoncion 11y ago
      It seems likely that there will always be at least one group of second-class citizens. The overall quality of life for humans appears to be increasing as the decades and centuries go by, but -frankly- I don't see our tendency to create outgroups going away for a very, very, very long time. Not to be mean, but I'm having some difficulty understanding how your contributions to this subthread are related to the topic broached by rm_-rf_slash.
      - the-dude 11y ago
        > instead of embracing the source of America's strength I am trying to put this narrative into perspective.
        simoncion 11y ago
        Ah. I expect that -if you make a close study of history-, you'll find that "[America's greatest strength is its ability to assimilate people and ideas into something greater than the sum of its parts as] long as [those people] are white and [those people and ideas are] christian..." is a statement that isn't supported by the facts. Xenophobia and racism was and is real, yes. But, -culturally and ideologically- the US has been and remains substantially less homogenous and substantially more willing to accept immigrants into its borders than many other countries.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

The real tragedy today is that there are many Americans who want a monopoly on American identity American identity is much more heterogeneous today than ever before, in no small part thanks to ecumenism.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
Broadly, yes. But let's not mince words: the white and largely male-dominated subset of Americans see themselves as the vanguards of the true - and dying - standard of what it means to be American. Therefore, they would rather fight scorched-earth against alternative lifestyles and skin colors over the meaning of what makes up an American rather than work together to ensure national prosperity in a turbulent world order.

the-dude 11y ago

As long as they are white and christian, yes. This week I learned on this very forum the US opened up to non-EU immigrants only after 1965? That is what they are referring to, right?

simoncion 11y ago
> This week I learned on this very forum the US opened up to non-EU immigrants only after 1965? What? The stereotype of Asian laborers working (and dying) to build the great Western railroads is grounded in a fair bit of truth. Moreover, San Francisco's Chinatown acquired the Asian residents that lead to its name long before 1965.
- the-dude 11y ago
  I stand corrected: they were just second class citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_laws_concerning_immigration_and_naturalization_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_laws_concerning_imm...
  - simoncion 11y ago
    It seems likely that there will always be at least one group of second-class citizens. The overall quality of life for humans appears to be increasing as the decades and centuries go by, but -frankly- I don't see our tendency to create outgroups going away for a very, very, very long time. Not to be mean, but I'm having some difficulty understanding how your contributions to this subthread are related to the topic broached by rm_-rf_slash.
    - the-dude 11y ago
      > instead of embracing the source of America's strength I am trying to put this narrative into perspective.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        Ah. I expect that -if you make a close study of history-, you'll find that "[America's greatest strength is its ability to assimilate people and ideas into something greater than the sum of its parts as] long as [those people] are white and [those people and ideas are] christian..." is a statement that isn't supported by the facts. Xenophobia and racism was and is real, yes. But, -culturally and ideologically- the US has been and remains substantially less homogenous and substantially more willing to accept immigrants into its borders than many other countries.