6 ms·

Graying Thieves Who Nearly Got Away with a Record Heist in London

76 points by pavornyoh 11y ago

octoploid 11y ago
There is a cool BBC documentary about this heist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr9thHKGgW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr9thHKGgW4
- MichaelApproved 11y ago
  It's interesting how wrong the speculations were about robbers. Their experts thought it was a Hollywood style "Reservoir Dogs" robbery with precision planning, recruitment from the "dark web" and that the loot was likely already out of the country (possibly hidden up a horses ass). One guy even speculated that they tripped the alarm on purpose, to see what the response would be. What turned out was pretty far from that. Still, it was worth the watch, for the recreation of drilling through the wall, decent into the elevator shaft and safe deposit box smashing.
cstross 11y ago
Key point: a chunk of the evidence against the thieves was collected via wireless bugging devices. Reading between the lines they'd also racked up an impressive stretch of prison time, individually and collectively. So perhaps were behind the curve in understanding just how modern intelligence-led policing and the surveillance state have converged to make their former profession extremely questionable. (A supplementary point: the problem with criminology is that it's the study of the criminal mind -- but the only criminal minds available for study are the ones who were stupid enough to get caught. These guys got lucky (if the on-site security guard had done his job and checked inside the premises properly, they'd have walked into a police trap on their second attempt), but luck wasn't enough. They were still running on a classic 1970s-80s London gangland script, and were known to the Met as robbery suspects with prior form. By speaking aloud about what they'd done they basically handed the police enough evidence to roll them up. Score: old-school bank robbers 0; modern surveillance state: 1.)
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  It seems that they were identified as the primary suspects just from surveillance cameras near the scene - I wonder how successful the case against them would have been without the bugging devices.
  - lotu 11y ago
    Well the police still would have found the loot in their possession so I'm going to say pretty successful.
    - pavel_lishin 11y ago
      Would they have been able to legally search their homes without the wireless bugs and the camera-and-lip-reading surveillance?
      - JupiterMoon 11y ago
        Almost certainly yes a warrant could eventually have been obtained. UK law (well English and Welsh law at least -- I can't speak of Scottish law) tends to err on the side of "catch the bad guys" rather than personal freedom. Most people here argue that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear and would not object to a police search of their own property. EDIT Also I see that the article says that two of the men were arrested whilst (driving?) with some of the loot. I'm not sure of the current status of stop and search but I'm fairly sure that the police have rather broad powers that don't require a warrant to search people outside of their home. Usual disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. I'm definitely not your lawyer. If you are looking for legal advice then hire a solicitor. Other disclaimer: I'm in the minority that thinks that everyone has something to hide -- even if only their bank details.
- bsder 11y ago
  > Key point: a chunk of the evidence against the thieves was collected via wireless bugging devices. They continued to talk about it. Mistake, period. Just, no. If I ever do something illegal, I will never talk about it after the fact. I have even had conversations with friends when I was younger: "Hey, how did you manage to get away from <place that got busted>?" "<incredulous look on my face> Why would you even ask me to admit I did something illegal that actually got busted by the police? And, even if I were there, why would you expect me to be stupid enough to answer?"
everyone 11y ago
A bunch of rich peoples rocks and metal which were sitting in a vault and not being put to any practical use were stolen. Who cares about that? I guess the police, as their job is to do whatever rich people want.
- GavinMcG 11y ago
  I'm not saying you're one of them, but I imagine there are people out there who would say exactly this while also "investing" in gold, and the irony tickles me.
- randyrand 11y ago
  Imagine it was your precious rocks and metals. Would you be mad then?
  - everyone 11y ago
    I dont need rare rocks and metals. Nobody does, except some specialists making certain technology.
MichaelApproved 11y ago
The safe deposit box company website[1] looks like it's from the year 2000, complete with a clock in the header of the page. I guess this business was more likely to get customers through word of mouth than their website, so it didn't matter too much. [1] http://www.hattongardensafe.co.uk/index.html http://www.hattongardensafe.co.uk/index.html
- toyg 11y ago
  A business like that relies on location and reputation. Advertising is definitely secondary.
MichaelApproved 11y ago
A lot of the people were uninsured with tens of thousands of dollars in assets, if not more. I'm guessing that it's because they didn't want to report the assets to the government. Is that fair speculation?
- justincormack 11y ago
  No, people assume safe deposit boxes are secure so they don't pay for insurance. There are no taxes on assets, or requirement to report them to the government.
  - MichaelApproved 11y ago
    I'm speculating that they earned money without reporting it and then used that money to purchase those assets. The gov't doesn't tax the asset you own but it would be interested in knowing if you reported the income that you used to purchase the asset.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Sometimes that's the case. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/25/police-raid-deposit-boxes http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/25/police-raid-deposi... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2066470/Safety-deposit-box-raids-yield-1bn-of-drugs-cash-and-guns.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2066470/Safety-deposi...
siliconc0w 11y ago
Criminals seem to actually deal with a bit of a distributed trust problem. They rely on a reputation consensus to determine trust but that seems to require a culture of disclosing what you've done (bragging).
- kijin 11y ago
  That seems to be an interesting problem for the crypto community to have fun with. Could a person prove that one has successfully stolen a large amount of money in an unspecified series of heists, without actually incriminating oneself with having been a participant in any given heist?
  - showerst 11y ago
    Is that a version of a Zero Knowledge Proof problem? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof
    - gruez 11y ago
      Yes, but it's not a version that has a known solution.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
The Wikipedia article is rather neglected, it contains very little information so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_burglary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_bur...
mstade 11y ago
I must have walked past that pub at least a hundred times, and immediately when I read this story it just felt very right for this particular establishment to figure in it. Not just because, well, it's a London pub and most of them would fit in to a story like this; but also because this particular pub is placed on the corner of Baron St and Pentonville Rd. Pentonville is also the name of a nearby prison – HMP Pentonville[1]. Poetic, in a way. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Pentonville https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Pentonville

76 points by pavornyoh 11y ago

There is a cool BBC documentary about this heist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr9thHKGgW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr9thHKGgW4

MichaelApproved 11y ago
It's interesting how wrong the speculations were about robbers. Their experts thought it was a Hollywood style "Reservoir Dogs" robbery with precision planning, recruitment from the "dark web" and that the loot was likely already out of the country (possibly hidden up a horses ass). One guy even speculated that they tripped the alarm on purpose, to see what the response would be. What turned out was pretty far from that. Still, it was worth the watch, for the recreation of drilling through the wall, decent into the elevator shaft and safe deposit box smashing.

cstross 11y ago

Key point: a chunk of the evidence against the thieves was collected via wireless bugging devices. Reading between the lines they'd also racked up an impressive stretch of prison time, individually and collectively. So perhaps were behind the curve in understanding just how modern intelligence-led policing and the surveillance state have converged to make their former profession extremely questionable. (A supplementary point: the problem with criminology is that it's the study of the criminal mind -- but the only criminal minds available for study are the ones who were stupid enough to get caught. These guys got lucky (if the on-site security guard had done his job and checked inside the premises properly, they'd have walked into a police trap on their second attempt), but luck wasn't enough. They were still running on a classic 1970s-80s London gangland script, and were known to the Met as robbery suspects with prior form. By speaking aloud about what they'd done they basically handed the police enough evidence to roll them up. Score: old-school bank robbers 0; modern surveillance state: 1.)

pavel_lishin 11y ago
It seems that they were identified as the primary suspects just from surveillance cameras near the scene - I wonder how successful the case against them would have been without the bugging devices.
- lotu 11y ago
  Well the police still would have found the loot in their possession so I'm going to say pretty successful.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    Would they have been able to legally search their homes without the wireless bugs and the camera-and-lip-reading surveillance?
    - JupiterMoon 11y ago
      Almost certainly yes a warrant could eventually have been obtained. UK law (well English and Welsh law at least -- I can't speak of Scottish law) tends to err on the side of "catch the bad guys" rather than personal freedom. Most people here argue that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear and would not object to a police search of their own property. EDIT Also I see that the article says that two of the men were arrested whilst (driving?) with some of the loot. I'm not sure of the current status of stop and search but I'm fairly sure that the police have rather broad powers that don't require a warrant to search people outside of their home. Usual disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. I'm definitely not your lawyer. If you are looking for legal advice then hire a solicitor. Other disclaimer: I'm in the minority that thinks that everyone has something to hide -- even if only their bank details.
bsder 11y ago
> Key point: a chunk of the evidence against the thieves was collected via wireless bugging devices. They continued to talk about it. Mistake, period. Just, no. If I ever do something illegal, I will never talk about it after the fact. I have even had conversations with friends when I was younger: "Hey, how did you manage to get away from <place that got busted>?" "<incredulous look on my face> Why would you even ask me to admit I did something illegal that actually got busted by the police? And, even if I were there, why would you expect me to be stupid enough to answer?"

everyone 11y ago

A bunch of rich peoples rocks and metal which were sitting in a vault and not being put to any practical use were stolen. Who cares about that? I guess the police, as their job is to do whatever rich people want.

GavinMcG 11y ago
I'm not saying you're one of them, but I imagine there are people out there who would say exactly this while also "investing" in gold, and the irony tickles me.
randyrand 11y ago
Imagine it was your precious rocks and metals. Would you be mad then?
- everyone 11y ago
  I dont need rare rocks and metals. Nobody does, except some specialists making certain technology.

MichaelApproved 11y ago

The safe deposit box company website[1] looks like it's from the year 2000, complete with a clock in the header of the page. I guess this business was more likely to get customers through word of mouth than their website, so it didn't matter too much. [1] http://www.hattongardensafe.co.uk/index.html http://www.hattongardensafe.co.uk/index.html

toyg 11y ago
A business like that relies on location and reputation. Advertising is definitely secondary.

MichaelApproved 11y ago

A lot of the people were uninsured with tens of thousands of dollars in assets, if not more. I'm guessing that it's because they didn't want to report the assets to the government. Is that fair speculation?

justincormack 11y ago
No, people assume safe deposit boxes are secure so they don't pay for insurance. There are no taxes on assets, or requirement to report them to the government.
- MichaelApproved 11y ago
  I'm speculating that they earned money without reporting it and then used that money to purchase those assets. The gov't doesn't tax the asset you own but it would be interested in knowing if you reported the income that you used to purchase the asset.
DanBC 11y ago
Sometimes that's the case. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/25/police-raid-deposit-boxes http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/25/police-raid-deposi... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2066470/Safety-deposit-box-raids-yield-1bn-of-drugs-cash-and-guns.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2066470/Safety-deposi...

siliconc0w 11y ago

Criminals seem to actually deal with a bit of a distributed trust problem. They rely on a reputation consensus to determine trust but that seems to require a culture of disclosing what you've done (bragging).

kijin 11y ago
That seems to be an interesting problem for the crypto community to have fun with. Could a person prove that one has successfully stolen a large amount of money in an unspecified series of heists, without actually incriminating oneself with having been a participant in any given heist?
- showerst 11y ago
  Is that a version of a Zero Knowledge Proof problem? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof
  - gruez 11y ago
    Yes, but it's not a version that has a known solution.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

The Wikipedia article is rather neglected, it contains very little information so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_burglary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_bur...

mstade 11y ago

I must have walked past that pub at least a hundred times, and immediately when I read this story it just felt very right for this particular establishment to figure in it. Not just because, well, it's a London pub and most of them would fit in to a story like this; but also because this particular pub is placed on the corner of Baron St and Pentonville Rd. Pentonville is also the name of a nearby prison – HMP Pentonville[1]. Poetic, in a way. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Pentonville https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Pentonville