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>But politics can’t get done by machines. Can't it? Democracy is simply voting, which can easily be handled by machines.

icen 11y ago
When you go to vote, are you only ever concerned about the mechanical action to place a cross in a box? There's quite a lot more to politics, and politics in democracy, than just the act of voting.
bildung 11y ago
> Democracy is simply voting, which can easily be handled by machines. Voting is simply voting. If you insist on inventing a new definition, Democracy is a specific mode of a) gathering and representing the political will of the population; and b) a specific mode of forming that political will by the civil society. Voting is just the rather banal part of making the present aggregate political will visible and quantifiable. The most defining part of Democracy happens before the vote.
- puredemo 11y ago
  I'm not sure b) is generally included in the definition of democracy. Could you reference something that implies that?
  - bildung 11y ago
    > I'm not sure b) is generally included in the definition of democracy. Could you reference something that implies that? Its in most political science textbooks, and even on wikipedia, hidden in point 2 of the 4 point definition at the top. Have a look at most socialist eastern european countries in the 1980s. You had multiple parties, and you could vote. But surly we both wouldn't describe that as democracy. What was missing? Formally, there wasn't much of a difference. Sure, you often had compulsory voting, but Australia has that too. The missing part was the lack of an independent civic sector. You had no politically relevant NGOs, no independent unions etc. You couldn't simply create a new political party at will. The government was the only actor able to meaningfully influence the political landscape.
aspec 11y ago
The legislative branch of the government cannot be replaced with machines. Think a little harder.
- puredemo 11y ago
  Ballot issues today can be passed directly by voters even when they are blatantly unconstitutional. Then the judicial branch sorts out the conflicts. That is essentially already a primitive example of democracy being run by voting machine. Just because you are used to the current legislative system doesn't mean it isn't replaceable.

icen 11y ago

When you go to vote, are you only ever concerned about the mechanical action to place a cross in a box? There's quite a lot more to politics, and politics in democracy, than just the act of voting.

bildung 11y ago

> Democracy is simply voting, which can easily be handled by machines. Voting is simply voting. If you insist on inventing a new definition, Democracy is a specific mode of a) gathering and representing the political will of the population; and b) a specific mode of forming that political will by the civil society. Voting is just the rather banal part of making the present aggregate political will visible and quantifiable. The most defining part of Democracy happens before the vote.

puredemo 11y ago
I'm not sure b) is generally included in the definition of democracy. Could you reference something that implies that?
- bildung 11y ago
  > I'm not sure b) is generally included in the definition of democracy. Could you reference something that implies that? Its in most political science textbooks, and even on wikipedia, hidden in point 2 of the 4 point definition at the top. Have a look at most socialist eastern european countries in the 1980s. You had multiple parties, and you could vote. But surly we both wouldn't describe that as democracy. What was missing? Formally, there wasn't much of a difference. Sure, you often had compulsory voting, but Australia has that too. The missing part was the lack of an independent civic sector. You had no politically relevant NGOs, no independent unions etc. You couldn't simply create a new political party at will. The government was the only actor able to meaningfully influence the political landscape.

aspec 11y ago

The legislative branch of the government cannot be replaced with machines. Think a little harder.

puredemo 11y ago
Ballot issues today can be passed directly by voters even when they are blatantly unconstitutional. Then the judicial branch sorts out the conflicts. That is essentially already a primitive example of democracy being run by voting machine. Just because you are used to the current legislative system doesn't mean it isn't replaceable.