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I've always found this dichotomy interesting. Japan is revered for spawning a deep, simple and beautiful aesthetic sense. Yet, Japanese streets are a virtual a

I've always found this dichotomy interesting. Japan is revered for spawning a deep, simple and beautiful aesthetic sense. Yet, Japanese streets are a virtual assault on your senses. Like malevolent beings trying to overload your optical pathways. http://maps.google.co.jp/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=ja&q=%E7%A7%8B%E8%91%89%E5%8E%9F%E9%A7%85%EF%BC%88%E6%9D%B1%E4%BA%AC%EF%BC%89&sll=35.66017,139.778877&sspn=0.007418,0.013915&brcurrent=3,0x60188c0c0b13f54d:0xb630953beee48188,0&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=Ffu3IAIdC8lUCA&split=0&hq=&hnear=%E7%A7%8B%E8%91%89%E5%8E%9F%E9%A7%85%EF%BC%88%E6%9D%B1%E4%BA%AC%EF%BC%89&ll=35.698645,139.773989&spn=0.00369,0.006958&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=35.698227,139.775448&panoid=jsbiYV6WJ3g-E7Mt-Gx10g&cbp=12,312.08,,0,-12.28 http://maps.google.co.jp/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=ja&#... (maybe not the best example, but I picked someplace pretty random that looked like a commercial district). And I've noticed this same visual clutter in Japanese website design. http://car.nifty.com/ http://car.nifty.com/ http://www.guesthouse-apartment.com/ http://www.guesthouse-apartment.com/ etc.

dkarl 17y ago
malevolent beings trying to overload your optical pathways That's what happens when your brain becomes a tragedy of the commons. Some friends and I dreamed up the table of contents of the "Geocities Web Design Handbook," but I think it would apply to Japanese commercial web sites and streets as well. Part I. Basics Chapter 1. Rational thought: your enemy. Chapter 2. Serenity, comprehension, and other bad design smells. Part II. Basic applications Chapter 3. Maximizing information density using randomly sourced content. Chapter 4. Total coverage: cross-browser design techniques to banish white space. Part III. Advanced techniques Chapter 5. The BLINK tag: sissy crutch. Chapter 6. DOSing the visual cortex: advanced techniques to overwhelm and disorient.
Groxx 17y ago
I've found that interesting too. And I definitely agree with the website design, though I've seen faaaar worse than those, even in relatively popular websites. They seem to like putting everything in boxes, and loading the page with 100+ boxes of some sort. It has its uses, but definitely overload inducing. That said, a huge amount of the buildings in Japan are somehow different from others (different shape, color splashes, wall art), and there's a lot of random green spaces (usually with a shrine of some sort) in even the densest / most businessey areas. There are, of course, the standard looks like your map example, and cheap apartment housing that's the same everywhere in the world, but I've yet to see that amount of diversity anywhere else as the rule, rather than the exception.
javert 17y ago
I quite liked the way the street looks. It's intersting. I really don't see where you get "malevolent beings trying to overload your optical pathways."
- elblanco 17y ago
  I couldn't find a good example at night. Here's one http://www.danciprari.com/images/worldtrip/japan/ja-tok-street-view-shinjuku-09-night-600.jpg http://www.danciprari.com/images/worldtrip/japan/ja-tok-stre... Of course this is Shinjuku which is normally kind of loud. But you can find this type of street scene all over Japan. Like this http://img5.travelblog.org/Photos/40770/225034/t/1787494-Just-a-Wee-Side-Street-in-Tokyo-0.jpg http://img5.travelblog.org/Photos/40770/225034/t/1787494-Jus...
  - Groxx 17y ago
    Hah, yeah, that's everywhere. Much better pictures, thanks!
MikeMacMan 17y ago
Yes, they can build some really ugly websites, but some very elegant ones as well. It's puzzling. My theory is that Japanese (and Chinese) readers process a web site differently from readers of word-based languages, such as English. Japanese readers do a lot more 'scanning' than we do. It would be interesting to see a usability study of one of those Japanese sites that records how the user actually processes the page.
sketerpot 17y ago
I actually think that's a great street. It's dense and walkable. It has enough splashes of color that it's not drab. The buildings are a mix of shops, offices, and apartments, so you don't need to get in your car and wait in traffic for 20 minutes to get anywhere. It may seem cluttered, but it's excellent design for a place to live -- and your eye learns to ignore the clutter in about a week or so. And it's not all megabuildings, either. I'd wager that there's some pretty green space within easy walking distance.
- elblanco 17y ago
  I agree. Places like Tokyo and Seoul are visually assaulting. But you get used to it. And they are super walkable. But they make similarly hustle and bustle places like downtown Manhattan look calm and tame by comparison. I'm just not sure how to reconcile in my head this type of urban layout with the Japanese aesthetic.
  - sketerpot 17y ago
    I went to downtown Chicago last summer, and my reaction was "Wait, this is it? Weaksauce!" Actually, that's how I react to most American city planning these days, now that I've learned what a proper city can be.

dkarl 17y ago

malevolent beings trying to overload your optical pathways That's what happens when your brain becomes a tragedy of the commons. Some friends and I dreamed up the table of contents of the "Geocities Web Design Handbook," but I think it would apply to Japanese commercial web sites and streets as well. Part I. Basics Chapter 1. Rational thought: your enemy. Chapter 2. Serenity, comprehension, and other bad design smells. Part II. Basic applications Chapter 3. Maximizing information density using randomly sourced content. Chapter 4. Total coverage: cross-browser design techniques to banish white space. Part III. Advanced techniques Chapter 5. The BLINK tag: sissy crutch. Chapter 6. DOSing the visual cortex: advanced techniques to overwhelm and disorient.

Groxx 17y ago

I've found that interesting too. And I definitely agree with the website design, though I've seen faaaar worse than those, even in relatively popular websites. They seem to like putting everything in boxes, and loading the page with 100+ boxes of some sort. It has its uses, but definitely overload inducing. That said, a huge amount of the buildings in Japan are somehow different from others (different shape, color splashes, wall art), and there's a lot of random green spaces (usually with a shrine of some sort) in even the densest / most businessey areas. There are, of course, the standard looks like your map example, and cheap apartment housing that's the same everywhere in the world, but I've yet to see that amount of diversity anywhere else as the rule, rather than the exception.

javert 17y ago

I quite liked the way the street looks. It's intersting. I really don't see where you get "malevolent beings trying to overload your optical pathways."

elblanco 17y ago
I couldn't find a good example at night. Here's one http://www.danciprari.com/images/worldtrip/japan/ja-tok-street-view-shinjuku-09-night-600.jpg http://www.danciprari.com/images/worldtrip/japan/ja-tok-stre... Of course this is Shinjuku which is normally kind of loud. But you can find this type of street scene all over Japan. Like this http://img5.travelblog.org/Photos/40770/225034/t/1787494-Just-a-Wee-Side-Street-in-Tokyo-0.jpg http://img5.travelblog.org/Photos/40770/225034/t/1787494-Jus...
- Groxx 17y ago
  Hah, yeah, that's everywhere. Much better pictures, thanks!

MikeMacMan 17y ago

Yes, they can build some really ugly websites, but some very elegant ones as well. It's puzzling. My theory is that Japanese (and Chinese) readers process a web site differently from readers of word-based languages, such as English. Japanese readers do a lot more 'scanning' than we do. It would be interesting to see a usability study of one of those Japanese sites that records how the user actually processes the page.

sketerpot 17y ago

I actually think that's a great street. It's dense and walkable. It has enough splashes of color that it's not drab. The buildings are a mix of shops, offices, and apartments, so you don't need to get in your car and wait in traffic for 20 minutes to get anywhere. It may seem cluttered, but it's excellent design for a place to live -- and your eye learns to ignore the clutter in about a week or so. And it's not all megabuildings, either. I'd wager that there's some pretty green space within easy walking distance.

elblanco 17y ago
I agree. Places like Tokyo and Seoul are visually assaulting. But you get used to it. And they are super walkable. But they make similarly hustle and bustle places like downtown Manhattan look calm and tame by comparison. I'm just not sure how to reconcile in my head this type of urban layout with the Japanese aesthetic.
- sketerpot 17y ago
  I went to downtown Chicago last summer, and my reaction was "Wait, this is it? Weaksauce!" Actually, that's how I react to most American city planning these days, now that I've learned what a proper city can be.