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Except it didn't really work, because Tesla products are not good cars in the way that other $100k cars are. Sure, they're fast, but you just can't make a spor

by stonogo 11y ago

Except it didn't really work, because Tesla products are not good cars in the way that other $100k cars are. Sure, they're fast, but you just can't make a sports car that weighs as much as an F-150 and expect to be taken seriously by gearheads. This has always been a problem for any electric car company. Tesla products are cars for people who don't particularly give a shit about cars. I'm not slagging this as a negative thing -- it's a much bigger market than "people who care about cars." I just don't think that establishing themselves as a luxury brand is going to do anything toward the ostensible goal of "winning" against internal combustion. A $20k electric car would have a much better chance of achieving this.

vvanders 11y ago
As someone who falls into the venn diagram of "cares about cars" and owns a Tesla I respectfully disagree :). I think the better comparison is "cares about cars" -> "cares about only electric cars". FWIW electric powertrains have been making it into high end car tech for a while, I think we're just seeing it move down-market now in interesting ways.
mikeash 11y ago
Regardless of whether Teslas are "good cars," (and while they're not particularly good sports cars, they are excellent sedans) they are desired cars. A ton of people who never gave a crap about EVs before now see Teslas as objects of desire. Many of them can't afford to buy one, but they think of them as "if I won the lottery...." Then when a cheaper one comes out, it will be thought of as a cheaper version of that awesome car people always wanted to buy but could never afford, rather than a crappy "green" car for hippies. How many new product categories started at the low end and expanded upwards? They always start out expensive and work their way down. In hindsight, it's bizarre that other attempts to produce EVs came at it from the low end.
blendo 11y ago
The car referenced (a Xindayang D2) weighs 640 kg (1477 lbs). _That's_ the way to make a $20k electric car. Wish it were good, though. But to an F-150, it's a bug on the windshield. For safety, maybe we could limit urban traffic to lighter-weight vehicles?
rsync 11y ago
"Tesla products are cars for people who don't particularly give a shit about cars. I'm not slagging this as a negative thing -- it's a much bigger market than "people who care about cars." I just don't think that establishing themselves as a luxury brand is going to do anything toward the ostensible goal of "winning" against internal combustion." Have you driven one ? Every "car guy" (and I mean, deep, deep car guys) that I have talked to that has driven one has walked away starry eyed... Dramatically lower center or gravity, almost perfect weight distribution, space age shocks and struts that are way ahead of the rest of the auto industry ... there's more there than just a battery and some electric motors...

by stonogo 11y ago

vvanders 11y ago

As someone who falls into the venn diagram of "cares about cars" and owns a Tesla I respectfully disagree :). I think the better comparison is "cares about cars" -> "cares about only electric cars". FWIW electric powertrains have been making it into high end car tech for a while, I think we're just seeing it move down-market now in interesting ways.

mikeash 11y ago

Regardless of whether Teslas are "good cars," (and while they're not particularly good sports cars, they are excellent sedans) they are desired cars. A ton of people who never gave a crap about EVs before now see Teslas as objects of desire. Many of them can't afford to buy one, but they think of them as "if I won the lottery...." Then when a cheaper one comes out, it will be thought of as a cheaper version of that awesome car people always wanted to buy but could never afford, rather than a crappy "green" car for hippies. How many new product categories started at the low end and expanded upwards? They always start out expensive and work their way down. In hindsight, it's bizarre that other attempts to produce EVs came at it from the low end.

blendo 11y ago

The car referenced (a Xindayang D2) weighs 640 kg (1477 lbs). _That's_ the way to make a $20k electric car. Wish it were good, though. But to an F-150, it's a bug on the windshield. For safety, maybe we could limit urban traffic to lighter-weight vehicles?

rsync 11y ago

"Tesla products are cars for people who don't particularly give a shit about cars. I'm not slagging this as a negative thing -- it's a much bigger market than "people who care about cars." I just don't think that establishing themselves as a luxury brand is going to do anything toward the ostensible goal of "winning" against internal combustion." Have you driven one ? Every "car guy" (and I mean, deep, deep car guys) that I have talked to that has driven one has walked away starry eyed... Dramatically lower center or gravity, almost perfect weight distribution, space age shocks and struts that are way ahead of the rest of the auto industry ... there's more there than just a battery and some electric motors...