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One of the more genius aspects of Tesla was transforming perceptions of electric cars from oversized toy cars, to objects of lust and desire. Selling a 100k (a

One of the more genius aspects of Tesla was transforming perceptions of electric cars from oversized toy cars, to objects of lust and desire. Selling a 100k (actually, more like 150k for the initial roadsters) was a necessary part of this.

analyst74 11y ago
As much as I love Tesla, this is hardly a differentiating factor between Tesla and previously failed electric cars, which have mostly been aimed at luxury market.
- mikeash 11y ago
  What previously failed luxury electric cars were there? When I think of previously failed electric cars, I think of stuff like the EV-1, but I'm not particularly knowledgeable here.
- thescriptkiddie 11y ago
  What pre-Tesla electric cars where aimed at the luxury market? The only one I can think of is the Fisker Karma, which was almost universally panned for shitty build quality. What Tesla did (with the Model S, at least) that Fisker couldn't was build a car that seems to have traveled back in time from a future where electric cars are ubiquitous. Sure, it's no supercar, but it can go 200 miles on a charge and it outshines its luxury sedan peers when it comes to acceleration and style. If I had to choose between a Tesla Model S and a BMW M6, I'd pick the Model S every time. But if I had to pick between a Nissan Leaf and a Ford Fiesta, I'd get the Fiesta, because cheap electric cars are compromised in a way that cheap petrol cars aren't. That's what Tesla did differently.
  - rsync 11y ago
    "The only one I can think of is the Fisker Karma" The Fisker Karma is not an electric car. Nor is the BMW i8. Are you listening, incumbents who insist on doing things half-assed ? We're not impressed with the beautiful body and a tiny lawnmower engine hidden inside...
stonogo 11y ago
Except it didn't really work, because Tesla products are not good cars in the way that other $100k cars are. Sure, they're fast, but you just can't make a sports car that weighs as much as an F-150 and expect to be taken seriously by gearheads. This has always been a problem for any electric car company. Tesla products are cars for people who don't particularly give a shit about cars. I'm not slagging this as a negative thing -- it's a much bigger market than "people who care about cars." I just don't think that establishing themselves as a luxury brand is going to do anything toward the ostensible goal of "winning" against internal combustion. A $20k electric car would have a much better chance of achieving this.
- vvanders 11y ago
  As someone who falls into the venn diagram of "cares about cars" and owns a Tesla I respectfully disagree :). I think the better comparison is "cares about cars" -> "cares about only electric cars". FWIW electric powertrains have been making it into high end car tech for a while, I think we're just seeing it move down-market now in interesting ways.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Regardless of whether Teslas are "good cars," (and while they're not particularly good sports cars, they are excellent sedans) they are desired cars. A ton of people who never gave a crap about EVs before now see Teslas as objects of desire. Many of them can't afford to buy one, but they think of them as "if I won the lottery...." Then when a cheaper one comes out, it will be thought of as a cheaper version of that awesome car people always wanted to buy but could never afford, rather than a crappy "green" car for hippies. How many new product categories started at the low end and expanded upwards? They always start out expensive and work their way down. In hindsight, it's bizarre that other attempts to produce EVs came at it from the low end.
- blendo 11y ago
  The car referenced (a Xindayang D2) weighs 640 kg (1477 lbs). _That's_ the way to make a $20k electric car. Wish it were good, though. But to an F-150, it's a bug on the windshield. For safety, maybe we could limit urban traffic to lighter-weight vehicles?

analyst74 11y ago

As much as I love Tesla, this is hardly a differentiating factor between Tesla and previously failed electric cars, which have mostly been aimed at luxury market.

mikeash 11y ago
What previously failed luxury electric cars were there? When I think of previously failed electric cars, I think of stuff like the EV-1, but I'm not particularly knowledgeable here.
thescriptkiddie 11y ago
What pre-Tesla electric cars where aimed at the luxury market? The only one I can think of is the Fisker Karma, which was almost universally panned for shitty build quality. What Tesla did (with the Model S, at least) that Fisker couldn't was build a car that seems to have traveled back in time from a future where electric cars are ubiquitous. Sure, it's no supercar, but it can go 200 miles on a charge and it outshines its luxury sedan peers when it comes to acceleration and style. If I had to choose between a Tesla Model S and a BMW M6, I'd pick the Model S every time. But if I had to pick between a Nissan Leaf and a Ford Fiesta, I'd get the Fiesta, because cheap electric cars are compromised in a way that cheap petrol cars aren't. That's what Tesla did differently.
- rsync 11y ago
  "The only one I can think of is the Fisker Karma" The Fisker Karma is not an electric car. Nor is the BMW i8. Are you listening, incumbents who insist on doing things half-assed ? We're not impressed with the beautiful body and a tiny lawnmower engine hidden inside...

stonogo 11y ago

Except it didn't really work, because Tesla products are not good cars in the way that other $100k cars are. Sure, they're fast, but you just can't make a sports car that weighs as much as an F-150 and expect to be taken seriously by gearheads. This has always been a problem for any electric car company. Tesla products are cars for people who don't particularly give a shit about cars. I'm not slagging this as a negative thing -- it's a much bigger market than "people who care about cars." I just don't think that establishing themselves as a luxury brand is going to do anything toward the ostensible goal of "winning" against internal combustion. A $20k electric car would have a much better chance of achieving this.

vvanders 11y ago
As someone who falls into the venn diagram of "cares about cars" and owns a Tesla I respectfully disagree :). I think the better comparison is "cares about cars" -> "cares about only electric cars". FWIW electric powertrains have been making it into high end car tech for a while, I think we're just seeing it move down-market now in interesting ways.
mikeash 11y ago
Regardless of whether Teslas are "good cars," (and while they're not particularly good sports cars, they are excellent sedans) they are desired cars. A ton of people who never gave a crap about EVs before now see Teslas as objects of desire. Many of them can't afford to buy one, but they think of them as "if I won the lottery...." Then when a cheaper one comes out, it will be thought of as a cheaper version of that awesome car people always wanted to buy but could never afford, rather than a crappy "green" car for hippies. How many new product categories started at the low end and expanded upwards? They always start out expensive and work their way down. In hindsight, it's bizarre that other attempts to produce EVs came at it from the low end.
blendo 11y ago
The car referenced (a Xindayang D2) weighs 640 kg (1477 lbs). _That's_ the way to make a $20k electric car. Wish it were good, though. But to an F-150, it's a bug on the windshield. For safety, maybe we could limit urban traffic to lighter-weight vehicles?