4 ms·

Your example of United States v Silk[1] doesn't actually help your argument in relation to Uber drivers. Yes, the Supreme Court reclassified the "unloaders of

by jasode 11y ago

Your example of United States v Silk[1] doesn't actually help your argument in relation to Uber drivers. Yes, the Supreme Court reclassified the "unloaders of coal using shovels" as "employees" but the majority opinion agreed with the lower court to leave the drivers as "contractors". Relevant excerpt of the decision: "... But we agree with the decisions below in Silk and Greyvan that, where the arrangements leave the driver owners so much responsibility the investment and management as here, they must be held to be independent contractors.[14] These driver owners are small businessmen. They own their own trucks. ..." Also, your comment about "The drivers' "businesses" are so integrated into Uber's product that there is no meaningful distinction that can be drawn there" is not a consistent litmus test since many industries depend on people "integrated" into their product. Movie productions hiring freelancers such as stuntmen, soundmen, actors, etc -- who are all "integral" to the product (the film). Or hair salons providing booths to freelance hairstylists. Those hair cutters are "integral" as well. There are better arguments for reclassifying contractors as employees other than the "integral" test. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Silk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Silk

will_brown 11y ago
> ...These driver owners are small businessmen. They own their own trucks. ..." The Uber case can be distinguished...Uber actually owns the vehicles many of the Uber Driver's operate. (If you are an Uber driver you can have Uber finance you a vehicle). Further, very likely the truck drivers actually own a business entity separate and apart from themselves, I don't think you will find many Uber drivers being paid in the name of a business (not determiniative but a factor in many states).
- morgante 11y ago
  > Uber actually owns the vehicles many of the Uber Driver's operate The vast majority of Uber vehicles are owned by the driver.
  - uremog 11y ago
    Are there some that are actually owned by Uber?
    - pbreit 11y ago
      I think the answer is most likely "no". And I'd be surprised if it even gets kickbacks from leasing companies since it is already getting nice cars on the road with motivated drivers who have to pay their leases off with earnings.
- bdcravens 11y ago
  > If you are an Uber driver you can have Uber finance you a vehicle Uber doesn't provide the financing. From their financing page (https://get.uber.com/cl/financing/ https://get.uber.com/cl/financing/) "Each participating lender has set requirements for approval and certain items on your credit report may exclude you from eligibility" Uber just partners with lenders and dealerships, and deducts the money on behalf of the lender.
  - will_brown 11y ago
    >Uber just partners with lenders and dealerships In other words, the Uber drivers ("contractors") don't own their own equipment ("the car") rather Uber's partners name is probably on the title. While I don't know the answer, should the evidence come out, do you think Uber is making money from their partners financing the equipment to the Uber contractors?
    - morgante 11y ago
      > In other words, the Uber drivers ("contractors") don't own their own equipment ("the car") rather Uber's partners name is probably on the title. That's now how car financing works.
      - will_brown 11y ago
        Financing your car through the company that you work for as an independent contractor it not generally how car financing works. "Tools and Materials: The furnishing of tools, materials, etc., by the employer indicates control over the worker." I think that fact that in some instances the company finances the very tools required by the contractor to perform - for this factor - suggests employee, I imagine you still don't. Luckily from the sidelines we can watch as the various levels of government (federal, state and local) begin to figure it out for all of us. Already California Labor Commissions have ruled an Uber driver as an employee (which Uber is appealing to the CA Courts, so now we will have our first taste of their opinion) and per this article some state legislatures appear to be codifying drivers for TNCs as ICs.

by jasode 11y ago

will_brown 11y ago

> ...These driver owners are small businessmen. They own their own trucks. ..." The Uber case can be distinguished...Uber actually owns the vehicles many of the Uber Driver's operate. (If you are an Uber driver you can have Uber finance you a vehicle). Further, very likely the truck drivers actually own a business entity separate and apart from themselves, I don't think you will find many Uber drivers being paid in the name of a business (not determiniative but a factor in many states).

morgante 11y ago
> Uber actually owns the vehicles many of the Uber Driver's operate The vast majority of Uber vehicles are owned by the driver.
- uremog 11y ago
  Are there some that are actually owned by Uber?
  - pbreit 11y ago
    I think the answer is most likely "no". And I'd be surprised if it even gets kickbacks from leasing companies since it is already getting nice cars on the road with motivated drivers who have to pay their leases off with earnings.
bdcravens 11y ago
> If you are an Uber driver you can have Uber finance you a vehicle Uber doesn't provide the financing. From their financing page (https://get.uber.com/cl/financing/ https://get.uber.com/cl/financing/) "Each participating lender has set requirements for approval and certain items on your credit report may exclude you from eligibility" Uber just partners with lenders and dealerships, and deducts the money on behalf of the lender.
- will_brown 11y ago
  >Uber just partners with lenders and dealerships In other words, the Uber drivers ("contractors") don't own their own equipment ("the car") rather Uber's partners name is probably on the title. While I don't know the answer, should the evidence come out, do you think Uber is making money from their partners financing the equipment to the Uber contractors?
  - morgante 11y ago
    > In other words, the Uber drivers ("contractors") don't own their own equipment ("the car") rather Uber's partners name is probably on the title. That's now how car financing works.
    - will_brown 11y ago
      Financing your car through the company that you work for as an independent contractor it not generally how car financing works. "Tools and Materials: The furnishing of tools, materials, etc., by the employer indicates control over the worker." I think that fact that in some instances the company finances the very tools required by the contractor to perform - for this factor - suggests employee, I imagine you still don't. Luckily from the sidelines we can watch as the various levels of government (federal, state and local) begin to figure it out for all of us. Already California Labor Commissions have ruled an Uber driver as an employee (which Uber is appealing to the CA Courts, so now we will have our first taste of their opinion) and per this article some state legislatures appear to be codifying drivers for TNCs as ICs.