4 ms·

A good test - if the contracts are negotiated individually for all drivers - they are contractors. If it is take or leave with 1000s more like you - you are emp

A good test - if the contracts are negotiated individually for all drivers - they are contractors. If it is take or leave with 1000s more like you - you are employee. If you have no bargaining power - you are not a contractor IMO.

sageikosa 11y ago
Or...more likely...you are a contractor offering a commodity service in a market with ample supply. There's no requirement to go into lengthy or customized negotiations to offer, accept or reject a contract.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  Uber drivers don't even have the opportunity to negotiate a contract. The situations are not even comparable.
  - sageikosa 11y ago
    Huh? I can negotiate a salary, that doesn't make me a contractor. A separate haggling phase of a contract is not necessary for a contract to have legal force. It's the agreement to the letter of the contract.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Yes, you can still have a "contract", but the driver and rider either accept or reject a prewritten, third-party contract. The driver cannot negotiate directly with the rider as you would expect an independent contractor to be able to do.
      - sageikosa 11y ago
        Which has nothing to do with whether a driver is an employee or a contractor for uber...if a driver wants to go gypsy, they lose the dispatch functionality of uber, but gain the ability to negotiate fares with riders directly, as they are not encumbered by a previous agreement.
Zikes 11y ago
But, don't a lot of employees also get to negotiate their salaries and benefits when they're hired?
morgante 11y ago
> A good test - if the contracts are negotiated individually for all drivers - they are contractors. If it is take or leave with 1000s more like you - you are employee. I have literally never seen that as a test, and it seems extraordinarily effective. Many employees have a ton of leverage and do negotiate their compensation aggressively. On the other hand, many contractors do very little negotiation. Ex. my dad works in construction and would frequently be told about a certain project where the pay was $x/hr for 1 week — take it or leave it (no negotiation). I don't see how whether contracts are collective or individual is at all an effective test for differentiating contractors and employees.
Symmetry 11y ago
I'm not sure that's a very good test. I certainly have bargaining power but I'm still an employee.

sageikosa 11y ago

Or...more likely...you are a contractor offering a commodity service in a market with ample supply. There's no requirement to go into lengthy or customized negotiations to offer, accept or reject a contract.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
Uber drivers don't even have the opportunity to negotiate a contract. The situations are not even comparable.
- sageikosa 11y ago
  Huh? I can negotiate a salary, that doesn't make me a contractor. A separate haggling phase of a contract is not necessary for a contract to have legal force. It's the agreement to the letter of the contract.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Yes, you can still have a "contract", but the driver and rider either accept or reject a prewritten, third-party contract. The driver cannot negotiate directly with the rider as you would expect an independent contractor to be able to do.
    - sageikosa 11y ago
      Which has nothing to do with whether a driver is an employee or a contractor for uber...if a driver wants to go gypsy, they lose the dispatch functionality of uber, but gain the ability to negotiate fares with riders directly, as they are not encumbered by a previous agreement.

Zikes 11y ago

But, don't a lot of employees also get to negotiate their salaries and benefits when they're hired?

morgante 11y ago

> A good test - if the contracts are negotiated individually for all drivers - they are contractors. If it is take or leave with 1000s more like you - you are employee. I have literally never seen that as a test, and it seems extraordinarily effective. Many employees have a ton of leverage and do negotiate their compensation aggressively. On the other hand, many contractors do very little negotiation. Ex. my dad works in construction and would frequently be told about a certain project where the pay was $x/hr for 1 week — take it or leave it (no negotiation). I don't see how whether contracts are collective or individual is at all an effective test for differentiating contractors and employees.

Symmetry 11y ago

I'm not sure that's a very good test. I certainly have bargaining power but I'm still an employee.