5 ms·

From the feature article: "Lets however get one thing straight right off the bat. Nobody can forsee that the Amiga will rise from the ashes to be a mainstream

From the feature article: "Lets however get one thing straight right off the bat. Nobody can forsee that the Amiga will rise from the ashes to be a mainstream competitor." Its funny, because I have given serious thought for the past 10 years about acquiring the IP and rebooting the brand (and doing a REAL reboot, not just sticking a PC in a Commodore skin (or keyboard, as one IP holder did)). If you look at Apple, the company was in a rather dire situation before Jobs stepped back in. Likewise, I think dust is collecting on one of the most valuable "unclaimed" brands out there.

doener 11y ago
If you have the resources, do it!
lallysingh 11y ago
I grew up learning to program on a c128d. I'd love to buy my daughter a dedicated computer for learning to program, to make things and play on. But give it its own LCD.
ZenoArrow 11y ago
I'd like to wish you luck if you decided to do it. Would the real reboot you had on mind be based on the software or the hardware (custom hardware could be pricey)? Would you consider partnering with the companies that currently work on Amiga hardware and software?
- gavanwoolery 11y ago
  Thanks - I doubt it will happen any time soon (or at all), but it is always something on the back of my mind. I'd be willing to work around existing hardware potentially. Primarily I would be interested in creating a really simple, elegant OS/IDE/compiler/language/etc - even if that means limiting it to one set of hardware (I am totally a custom-built PC guy, but console-ish devices have their virtues). I'd really like to bring back CPU-based graphics programming (even if the means to it is GPU-style parallel architecture).
  - reitoei 11y ago
    > even if that means limiting it to one set of hardware Or starting off optimized for one set of hardware as a baseline and go from there.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    Sounds promising. To be honest, though it might not be what you had in mind, what you said reminded me of Oberon (the programming language and the OS): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(programming_language) It even works on FPGAs, so that could help with the custom hardware part of a reboot too. :-)
blue1 11y ago
I think that's the secret wet dream of those that still have a little place in their heart for the old Amiga. Which means, I suspect, a lot of people.
- erickhill 11y ago
  There are basically 3 buckets of enthusiasts (I know, because I fall into across two of them). 1) Retro-nostalgia game geeks, mostly from Europe but some in North America as well, just vastly fewer. The Amiga sold better in Europe than comparable consoles like the SNES, Genesis, etc. I compare it to consoles because that really is what the Amiga offered to most folks - console quality games in the guise of a computer. Disks (lots of disks) versus cartridges. And some hand-wavy productivity stuff, like the C64 did (it's OK mom, this is a computer and will make Jonny better at school!), that a few folks used. 2) Antiquated video toaster tinkerers and hardware geeks. These folks like to play with hardware, especially antiquated hardware, and see how far they can push it for the novelty of it all. 3) Old Amiga OSes vs Amiga OS 4+. I think Amiga 4 is really for the folks who want to turn the brand into something usable and modern, but in all honesty, I think Amiga - if it were to ever rise from the ashes - would need a complete reboot much like OS X was compared to OS 9 and earlier. OS X was a total rework, and allowed some backwards compatibility for a little while but ultimately divorced itself from the old days. This is the only way it could ever succeed. Amiga (and, ultimately, Commodore) will always be thought of fondly by past customers, but to get a new market Amiga/Commodore would need to reboot. That's my opinion, anyway. And focus on innovation. The brands are currently zombie brands, owned by various firms that simply license the logos to any Tom, Dick and Harry that want to slap it on a Chinese mobile phone, toaster, teapot, whatever. Those days would have to stop. I personally started in bucket #2 above. I own a never used/never sold Amiga 1200. And as soon as I got it, I cracked it open and installed an accelerator board (they are easily purchased from Amigakit in England) that pushed its RAM from 2MB up to a whopping 9MB. I also installed a 4GB compact flash hard drive (the original never-used hard drive was a dead brick, naturally). As a result, I can load virtually anything I want onto the machine and use it relatively quickly (see bucket 1). Currently I'm on Level 3 of Eye of the Beholder. :) Yes, I deal with PAL vs NTSC issues at times, among other things, but overall it's a pretty nifty setup. Next year I plan to get it on my Wi-Fi - because. So, from a hobbyist standpoint, it's quite a lot of fun. And it's vastly more enjoyable than an emulator. But it's not for everyone. And my pipe dream about a renewed Amiga/Commodore brand is really, frankly, never going to happen. If a company could create a vision like I described, they wouldn't anchor it to a dead zombie brand (that I love).
panzagl 11y ago
Amiga Phone?
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
I was a huge Amiga fan in the 80s, but I'm really not seeing anything beyond nostalgic value for the brand in 2015. That value is strictly limited in cash terms. When Jobs came back Apple stopped being beige and started producing fun, quirky, colourful computers with iconic visual design. Jobs didn't try to re-release the Apple Mac - he tried to produce a product that had the USP of the original Mac, but with newer technology and better design. A successful Amiga reboot would have to reinvent the Amiga difference and not just produce something average that happens to run AmigaOS. You'd have to introduce technology maybe five years ahead of the market mainstream and dramatise it with show-stealingly awesome demos. That's a hard thing to do in 2015 - possibly harder than it was in 1985 - and anyone planning to do it probably won't be aiming at any of the current computing form factors.
- gavanwoolery 11y ago
  Totally agree with you. As I mentioned in another comment, I'd like to kind of rethink things on the software end (and possibly the hardware end if that were in the budget). Anyhow, I doubt I'd be involved in such a thing with current obligations stretching out several years already, but it is nice to think about. :)
- ethanpil 11y ago
  The Raspberry PI is the Amiga of our era.
  - gnrme 11y ago
    I see the Pi as more like a Spectrum. The Amiga of our era is, well, Apple. Yet Apple seems to have lost focus on desktop users.
    - walkingolof 11y ago
      Apple does in no way capture the imagination like the Amiga did in the 80s, for most people it was the first interaction with a "real" computer, pure magic. Apple is just more of the same.
  - 11y ago
doener 11y ago
I really think that a device that captured the spirit of Amiga could be a success. Not only amongst ex Amiga users, but amongst other users as well. What was the "magic" of the Amiga in the 80s and early 90s and what could be something similar today? In the 80s and 90s: - Really good graphics and sound (when most PC users got EGA graphics and PC speaker sound, if anything besides ASCII at all) - Easy to use (you could do everything with your mouse) - A device for games, fun AND serious stuff - Relatively affordable What could this be today? Maybe an affordable "ready to use" device that drives forward Virtual Reality for games and other use cases? A smartphone that is also your PC and you can easily combine it with monitor, keyboard and mouse? Any ideas?
- reitoei 11y ago
  Much of the attraction of the Amiga (and the Atari ST) from that time, as far as I remember, was the 'step-up' in terms of the quality of the graphics and the games, when most people were rocking 8bit micros like the C64 or Amstrad. In terms of what you could do software-wise, I think we can forget about the mainstream games industry. Same with the mainstream graphics industry (for the reason we have no Adobe Creative Studio for Linux). What would interest me would be a killer OS with an active ecosystem supporting more indie-style products like Firefox, Sketch (https://designcode.io/sketch https://designcode.io/sketch), Sublime Text, Atom etc, as well as indie games like Hotline Miami. Start 'small' and see where it goes kind of thing. I, for one, would be very interested in something like this.
  - Derpdiherp 11y ago
    So.. Linux then? Happily playing Hotline Miami and using all the programs you mentioned. Unless that's what you meant, in that case "whoosh over my head"
    - reitoei 11y ago
      Yeah, but optimized for a very specific set of hardware. Like an Amiga-flavored Rasbian I suppose?
- 11y ago
digi_owl 11y ago
Best i recall the Amiga IP and the Commodore IP is at this time separate. Never mind the AROS project that aims to be API compatible with AmigaOS. http://aros.sourceforge.net/ http://aros.sourceforge.net/ If you still want to chase down the Amiga IP, there seems to be two entities to talk to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga,_Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Entertainment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Entertainment The former holds the trademark and other IP, while the latter seems to be working on further improvements to AmigaOS4 and producing hardware to run it on.
- vidarh 11y ago
  It's more complicated. Hyperion doesn't really do hardware. The hardware for AmigaOS4 is done by companies like A-Eon [1] and ACube[2]. Note how since Amiga Inc. still holds the rights to the name Amiga, A-Eon and ACube hardware is called AmigaOne rather than Amiga. To make it even more convoluted, Cloanto owns the name "Workbench" for use with their emulation packages. [1] http://www.a-eon.com/ http://www.a-eon.com/ [2] http://www.acube-systems.biz/ http://www.acube-systems.biz/

doener 11y ago

If you have the resources, do it!

lallysingh 11y ago

I grew up learning to program on a c128d. I'd love to buy my daughter a dedicated computer for learning to program, to make things and play on. But give it its own LCD.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

I'd like to wish you luck if you decided to do it. Would the real reboot you had on mind be based on the software or the hardware (custom hardware could be pricey)? Would you consider partnering with the companies that currently work on Amiga hardware and software?

gavanwoolery 11y ago
Thanks - I doubt it will happen any time soon (or at all), but it is always something on the back of my mind. I'd be willing to work around existing hardware potentially. Primarily I would be interested in creating a really simple, elegant OS/IDE/compiler/language/etc - even if that means limiting it to one set of hardware (I am totally a custom-built PC guy, but console-ish devices have their virtues). I'd really like to bring back CPU-based graphics programming (even if the means to it is GPU-style parallel architecture).
- reitoei 11y ago
  > even if that means limiting it to one set of hardware Or starting off optimized for one set of hardware as a baseline and go from there.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Sounds promising. To be honest, though it might not be what you had in mind, what you said reminded me of Oberon (the programming language and the OS): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(programming_language) It even works on FPGAs, so that could help with the custom hardware part of a reboot too. :-)

blue1 11y ago

I think that's the secret wet dream of those that still have a little place in their heart for the old Amiga. Which means, I suspect, a lot of people.

erickhill 11y ago
There are basically 3 buckets of enthusiasts (I know, because I fall into across two of them). 1) Retro-nostalgia game geeks, mostly from Europe but some in North America as well, just vastly fewer. The Amiga sold better in Europe than comparable consoles like the SNES, Genesis, etc. I compare it to consoles because that really is what the Amiga offered to most folks - console quality games in the guise of a computer. Disks (lots of disks) versus cartridges. And some hand-wavy productivity stuff, like the C64 did (it's OK mom, this is a computer and will make Jonny better at school!), that a few folks used. 2) Antiquated video toaster tinkerers and hardware geeks. These folks like to play with hardware, especially antiquated hardware, and see how far they can push it for the novelty of it all. 3) Old Amiga OSes vs Amiga OS 4+. I think Amiga 4 is really for the folks who want to turn the brand into something usable and modern, but in all honesty, I think Amiga - if it were to ever rise from the ashes - would need a complete reboot much like OS X was compared to OS 9 and earlier. OS X was a total rework, and allowed some backwards compatibility for a little while but ultimately divorced itself from the old days. This is the only way it could ever succeed. Amiga (and, ultimately, Commodore) will always be thought of fondly by past customers, but to get a new market Amiga/Commodore would need to reboot. That's my opinion, anyway. And focus on innovation. The brands are currently zombie brands, owned by various firms that simply license the logos to any Tom, Dick and Harry that want to slap it on a Chinese mobile phone, toaster, teapot, whatever. Those days would have to stop. I personally started in bucket #2 above. I own a never used/never sold Amiga 1200. And as soon as I got it, I cracked it open and installed an accelerator board (they are easily purchased from Amigakit in England) that pushed its RAM from 2MB up to a whopping 9MB. I also installed a 4GB compact flash hard drive (the original never-used hard drive was a dead brick, naturally). As a result, I can load virtually anything I want onto the machine and use it relatively quickly (see bucket 1). Currently I'm on Level 3 of Eye of the Beholder. :) Yes, I deal with PAL vs NTSC issues at times, among other things, but overall it's a pretty nifty setup. Next year I plan to get it on my Wi-Fi - because. So, from a hobbyist standpoint, it's quite a lot of fun. And it's vastly more enjoyable than an emulator. But it's not for everyone. And my pipe dream about a renewed Amiga/Commodore brand is really, frankly, never going to happen. If a company could create a vision like I described, they wouldn't anchor it to a dead zombie brand (that I love).

panzagl 11y ago

Amiga Phone?

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago

I was a huge Amiga fan in the 80s, but I'm really not seeing anything beyond nostalgic value for the brand in 2015. That value is strictly limited in cash terms. When Jobs came back Apple stopped being beige and started producing fun, quirky, colourful computers with iconic visual design. Jobs didn't try to re-release the Apple Mac - he tried to produce a product that had the USP of the original Mac, but with newer technology and better design. A successful Amiga reboot would have to reinvent the Amiga difference and not just produce something average that happens to run AmigaOS. You'd have to introduce technology maybe five years ahead of the market mainstream and dramatise it with show-stealingly awesome demos. That's a hard thing to do in 2015 - possibly harder than it was in 1985 - and anyone planning to do it probably won't be aiming at any of the current computing form factors.

gavanwoolery 11y ago
Totally agree with you. As I mentioned in another comment, I'd like to kind of rethink things on the software end (and possibly the hardware end if that were in the budget). Anyhow, I doubt I'd be involved in such a thing with current obligations stretching out several years already, but it is nice to think about. :)
ethanpil 11y ago
The Raspberry PI is the Amiga of our era.
- gnrme 11y ago
  I see the Pi as more like a Spectrum. The Amiga of our era is, well, Apple. Yet Apple seems to have lost focus on desktop users.
  - walkingolof 11y ago
    Apple does in no way capture the imagination like the Amiga did in the 80s, for most people it was the first interaction with a "real" computer, pure magic. Apple is just more of the same.
- 11y ago

doener 11y ago

I really think that a device that captured the spirit of Amiga could be a success. Not only amongst ex Amiga users, but amongst other users as well. What was the "magic" of the Amiga in the 80s and early 90s and what could be something similar today? In the 80s and 90s: - Really good graphics and sound (when most PC users got EGA graphics and PC speaker sound, if anything besides ASCII at all) - Easy to use (you could do everything with your mouse) - A device for games, fun AND serious stuff - Relatively affordable What could this be today? Maybe an affordable "ready to use" device that drives forward Virtual Reality for games and other use cases? A smartphone that is also your PC and you can easily combine it with monitor, keyboard and mouse? Any ideas?

reitoei 11y ago
Much of the attraction of the Amiga (and the Atari ST) from that time, as far as I remember, was the 'step-up' in terms of the quality of the graphics and the games, when most people were rocking 8bit micros like the C64 or Amstrad. In terms of what you could do software-wise, I think we can forget about the mainstream games industry. Same with the mainstream graphics industry (for the reason we have no Adobe Creative Studio for Linux). What would interest me would be a killer OS with an active ecosystem supporting more indie-style products like Firefox, Sketch (https://designcode.io/sketch https://designcode.io/sketch), Sublime Text, Atom etc, as well as indie games like Hotline Miami. Start 'small' and see where it goes kind of thing. I, for one, would be very interested in something like this.
- Derpdiherp 11y ago
  So.. Linux then? Happily playing Hotline Miami and using all the programs you mentioned. Unless that's what you meant, in that case "whoosh over my head"
  - reitoei 11y ago
    Yeah, but optimized for a very specific set of hardware. Like an Amiga-flavored Rasbian I suppose?
11y ago

digi_owl 11y ago

Best i recall the Amiga IP and the Commodore IP is at this time separate. Never mind the AROS project that aims to be API compatible with AmigaOS. http://aros.sourceforge.net/ http://aros.sourceforge.net/ If you still want to chase down the Amiga IP, there seems to be two entities to talk to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga,_Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Entertainment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Entertainment The former holds the trademark and other IP, while the latter seems to be working on further improvements to AmigaOS4 and producing hardware to run it on.

vidarh 11y ago
It's more complicated. Hyperion doesn't really do hardware. The hardware for AmigaOS4 is done by companies like A-Eon [1] and ACube[2]. Note how since Amiga Inc. still holds the rights to the name Amiga, A-Eon and ACube hardware is called AmigaOne rather than Amiga. To make it even more convoluted, Cloanto owns the name "Workbench" for use with their emulation packages. [1] http://www.a-eon.com/ http://www.a-eon.com/ [2] http://www.acube-systems.biz/ http://www.acube-systems.biz/