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> The SNP (Scottish National Party) isn't nationalist in the usual sense of the word. It's well to the left of, and more liberal than, the other UK parties Tha

> The SNP (Scottish National Party) isn't nationalist in the usual sense of the word. It's well to the left of, and more liberal than, the other UK parties Thanks; that's a great counter-example. I wonder how the politics works - what draws liberals to support it? Is it the usual xenophobia, or something else? Incidentally: At the time of the referendum, I watched a debate between leading advocates on both sides. A major priority for both sides was to emphasize how national health care, referred to as a treasured institution, would be preserved if their side won. Apparantly everyone in Scotland loves it.

icebraining 11y ago
In the SNP case, and the other example I was thinking about - the multiple regional parties in Spain which defend their secession from the main country (see the recent Catalonia independence movement) - I'd say the nationalism is rooted in the basis of the right of self-determination, which is very dear to the Left.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > the basis of the right of self-determination, which is very dear to the Left. That's an interesting perspective. I think of that as more libertarian and right-wing. In the U.S., those supporting states rights (over the federal government) are overwhelmingly on the right. The left is stereotyped as wanting a 'nanny state'.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Ah, you are talking about individual self-determination, but I was talking about self-determination of "a people", as declared in the first article of the UN Charter. This doesn't mean a lack of government, or a smaller one (in terms of "nannyism"). In this example, the Scots and the regions of Spain consider themselves a different "people" from the whole country (with different languages, culture, etc) and want independence to form their own (possibly "nanny") State and government. That said, the concept of libertarianism and reduction/elimination of government being right-wing is mostly a (relatively recent) American invention. The long history of Anarchism and individual libertarianism, including in the US with fellows like Benjamin Tucker, was mostly left-wing and anti-capitalist, since Proudhon coined the term.
ionised 11y ago
> I wonder how the politics works - what draws liberals to support it? Is it the usual xenophobia, or something else? I believe the Scottish in support of independece are that way because they are sick of being ruled by a succession of governments in Westminster that they feel do not represent them or serve their interests in any way. The Tories have never been successful in Scotland and yet Scotland is currently under the heel of 10 years of seriously right-wing Tory class warfare. They would be right in my opinion. I'm British (English) and I believe Scotland should have voted Yes. I feel they would be better off without us. At least they would be able to choose.

icebraining 11y ago

In the SNP case, and the other example I was thinking about - the multiple regional parties in Spain which defend their secession from the main country (see the recent Catalonia independence movement) - I'd say the nationalism is rooted in the basis of the right of self-determination, which is very dear to the Left.

hackuser 11y ago
> the basis of the right of self-determination, which is very dear to the Left. That's an interesting perspective. I think of that as more libertarian and right-wing. In the U.S., those supporting states rights (over the federal government) are overwhelmingly on the right. The left is stereotyped as wanting a 'nanny state'.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Ah, you are talking about individual self-determination, but I was talking about self-determination of "a people", as declared in the first article of the UN Charter. This doesn't mean a lack of government, or a smaller one (in terms of "nannyism"). In this example, the Scots and the regions of Spain consider themselves a different "people" from the whole country (with different languages, culture, etc) and want independence to form their own (possibly "nanny") State and government. That said, the concept of libertarianism and reduction/elimination of government being right-wing is mostly a (relatively recent) American invention. The long history of Anarchism and individual libertarianism, including in the US with fellows like Benjamin Tucker, was mostly left-wing and anti-capitalist, since Proudhon coined the term.

ionised 11y ago

> I wonder how the politics works - what draws liberals to support it? Is it the usual xenophobia, or something else? I believe the Scottish in support of independece are that way because they are sick of being ruled by a succession of governments in Westminster that they feel do not represent them or serve their interests in any way. The Tories have never been successful in Scotland and yet Scotland is currently under the heel of 10 years of seriously right-wing Tory class warfare. They would be right in my opinion. I'm British (English) and I believe Scotland should have voted Yes. I feel they would be better off without us. At least they would be able to choose.