3 ms·

But the number of people using the Internet was relatively small, so nothing has changed really. The only difference is that the majority began using the Intern

by yuhong 11y ago

But the number of people using the Internet was relatively small, so nothing has changed really. The only difference is that the majority began using the Internet in the first place.

mindslight 11y ago
Depends on how one perceives democratic force working. I don't view the absolute number of calls to congress as important as unstated assumptions about what is "unamerican". Back in the 90s if you asserted that the government was tapping everything, you were called a conspiracy nut. Because we had a shared societal belief that it was off the table in a free society. This has now been broken. A politician endorsing a surveillance system that would make East Germany jealous would have been ridiculed by the media. Now they're ridiculed for not supporting such totalitarianism.
- yuhong 11y ago
  That was caused by 9/11 though not the increasing use of the Internet. Which also reminds me that the US-EU safe harbor dates back to 2000.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    Sure, but the cause of it doesn't really matter. The net effect is I feel we're in a worse position for this battle than the 90s. Perhaps the 90s are just safely in the past, but this time I feel this issue will be with us until the tyrants finally get their way, or USG collapses. And Snowden's disclosures, while great for exposing the conspiracy, serves to normalize the surveillance. Very few people are switching away from butt services as a result, a tacit endorsement of the status quo. FWIW, if you watch things from before 11sep2001 there's still constant mentions of terrorism. "911" is more of a pretend watershed so we can tell ourselves "everything changed" when in reality the panopticon has been building for far longer.
    - yuhong 11y ago
      I hope that Bernie wins, and that will help at least as a first step toward change.

3 ms·

But the number of people using the Internet was relatively small, so nothing has changed really. The only difference is that the majority began using the Intern

by yuhong 11y ago

But the number of people using the Internet was relatively small, so nothing has changed really. The only difference is that the majority began using the Internet in the first place.

mindslight 11y ago
Depends on how one perceives democratic force working. I don't view the absolute number of calls to congress as important as unstated assumptions about what is "unamerican". Back in the 90s if you asserted that the government was tapping everything, you were called a conspiracy nut. Because we had a shared societal belief that it was off the table in a free society. This has now been broken. A politician endorsing a surveillance system that would make East Germany jealous would have been ridiculed by the media. Now they're ridiculed for not supporting such totalitarianism.
- yuhong 11y ago
  That was caused by 9/11 though not the increasing use of the Internet. Which also reminds me that the US-EU safe harbor dates back to 2000.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    Sure, but the cause of it doesn't really matter. The net effect is I feel we're in a worse position for this battle than the 90s. Perhaps the 90s are just safely in the past, but this time I feel this issue will be with us until the tyrants finally get their way, or USG collapses. And Snowden's disclosures, while great for exposing the conspiracy, serves to normalize the surveillance. Very few people are switching away from butt services as a result, a tacit endorsement of the status quo. FWIW, if you watch things from before 11sep2001 there's still constant mentions of terrorism. "911" is more of a pretend watershed so we can tell ourselves "everything changed" when in reality the panopticon has been building for far longer.
    - yuhong 11y ago
      I hope that Bernie wins, and that will help at least as a first step toward change.