6 ms·

When chip+pin rolled out in the UK, it noticeably sped up checkouts, it is certainly faster than signing.

jonknee 11y ago
The US does a lot of swipe+pin or just swipe, but the EMV process itself takes a long time (regardless of a PIN or signing afterwards): http://www.lowcards.com/emv-transactions-slow-37884 http://www.lowcards.com/emv-transactions-slow-37884 Compared to Apple/Android Pay it's painfully slow, but it's also noticeably slower than swiping.
- joosters 11y ago
  That page is just plain wrong. You can put the card into a reader, type your PIN in, and get your card back almost straight away. 5 seconds is possible if you don't forget your PIN! The process can be slower if the retailer uses an older system that hasn't got a permanent network connection. With some ancient terminals, you could hear a modem dialing up and talking to the bank. That was slow, but luckily those kind of terminals are now rare.
  - profmonocle 11y ago
    This is anecdotal, of course - but it's been much slower than swiping at every store I've used it at. These stores were using the exact same terminals for swiping just a few months ago, so it's not the network. Hopefully it's just crappy hardware in the terminals that's not optimized for EMV. Edit: Swiping used to take 1-2 seconds to process, EMV seems to take about 10.
  - mdp 11y ago
    That page is specifically talking about EMV in the US, and for whatever reason, I've never seen a EMV 'dip' that takes less than 5-10 seconds here. Target for example has consistently been around 10 seconds every time I've used EMV there and I doubt they are using dial-up.
  - jonathankoren 11y ago
    I've yet to have to put in a pin when I've used my chipped credit card in the US. In fact, I don't even know what the pins are on my credit card, just my debit/atm card. Worse yet, not all the chip enabled readers have the chip part enabled. So you can stick your card in, wait, and then realize you have to swipe. Otherwise, you swipe, get the suprisingly aggressive BZZZRT sound, and then use the chip reader and wait at least 5 seconds while it authenticates. I'll time it at the local Target. It's slow.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - jonknee 11y ago
    It's not wrong, it really is slow. It may be different in other places, but in the US it is slow. Still depends on the store (besides network connections there are tons of different hardware setups), but it is never as fast as swiping. In terms of speed from fastest to slowest: Apple/Adroid, swipe, swipe and sign, swipe and PIN, dip and sign.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    When swiping, my process is: swipe, put card back in wallet, put wallet back in pocket, wait for transaction to complete, go. (About 90% of my card transactions don't require a signature, because they're below the threshold for that.) When using a chip, my process is: insert card, wait for transaction to complete, remove card, put everything away, go. You'll notice that putting stuff away happens in parallel with the transaction in the first case, but they're in series in the second case. It may be reasonably quick, but it's still noticeably slower than swiping. It's not a big deal, but it's just one of those little annoyances.
- rconti 11y ago
  Yup. Comment below yours says EMV is fast, but it's just not. You need to stand there and wait with your card in the read for for the processing step. Maybe not 5 seconds, but a non-trivial amount of time. With a swipe, you'd have your card back in your wallet as the authentication was completing. If we had chip+pin it would be a different story, but because we have to sign, the EMV+sign process is slower than swipe+sign.
ctdonath 11y ago
In many places in USA, chip cards take significantly longer than swiping - like 10-30 seconds.
- jonknee 11y ago
  It's really astonishing that the credit card companies thought that mandating a much slower process was going to work. Should be a huge boon for Apple/Android Pay though.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    What's astonishing is how far behind the rest of the world the US is in adopting the technology.
    - ctdonath 11y ago
      That's a problem with being first adopter: the considerable investment in early infrastructure leaves you with early infrastructure which is hard & expensive to replace, contrasted with later adopters who take advantage of scale, lessons, and bypassing incremental steps.
cballard 11y ago
What is the purpose of the signature, anyways? Mine never looks anywhere close to the same as before, and most of the readers at the bad grocery store next to my apartment just select seemingly random pixels anyways when you touch it. Is this seriously a security measure? Even if it did matter, it's on the back of the card anyways, for someone to copy! Why not just get rid of it?

The US does a lot of swipe+pin or just swipe, but the EMV process itself takes a long time (regardless of a PIN or signing afterwards): http://www.lowcards.com/emv-transactions-slow-37884 http://www.lowcards.com/emv-transactions-slow-37884 Compared to Apple/Android Pay it's painfully slow, but it's also noticeably slower than swiping.

joosters 11y ago
That page is just plain wrong. You can put the card into a reader, type your PIN in, and get your card back almost straight away. 5 seconds is possible if you don't forget your PIN! The process can be slower if the retailer uses an older system that hasn't got a permanent network connection. With some ancient terminals, you could hear a modem dialing up and talking to the bank. That was slow, but luckily those kind of terminals are now rare.
- profmonocle 11y ago
  This is anecdotal, of course - but it's been much slower than swiping at every store I've used it at. These stores were using the exact same terminals for swiping just a few months ago, so it's not the network. Hopefully it's just crappy hardware in the terminals that's not optimized for EMV. Edit: Swiping used to take 1-2 seconds to process, EMV seems to take about 10.
- mdp 11y ago
  That page is specifically talking about EMV in the US, and for whatever reason, I've never seen a EMV 'dip' that takes less than 5-10 seconds here. Target for example has consistently been around 10 seconds every time I've used EMV there and I doubt they are using dial-up.
- jonathankoren 11y ago
  I've yet to have to put in a pin when I've used my chipped credit card in the US. In fact, I don't even know what the pins are on my credit card, just my debit/atm card. Worse yet, not all the chip enabled readers have the chip part enabled. So you can stick your card in, wait, and then realize you have to swipe. Otherwise, you swipe, get the suprisingly aggressive BZZZRT sound, and then use the chip reader and wait at least 5 seconds while it authenticates. I'll time it at the local Target. It's slow.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jonknee 11y ago
  It's not wrong, it really is slow. It may be different in other places, but in the US it is slow. Still depends on the store (besides network connections there are tons of different hardware setups), but it is never as fast as swiping. In terms of speed from fastest to slowest: Apple/Adroid, swipe, swipe and sign, swipe and PIN, dip and sign.
- mikeash 11y ago
  When swiping, my process is: swipe, put card back in wallet, put wallet back in pocket, wait for transaction to complete, go. (About 90% of my card transactions don't require a signature, because they're below the threshold for that.) When using a chip, my process is: insert card, wait for transaction to complete, remove card, put everything away, go. You'll notice that putting stuff away happens in parallel with the transaction in the first case, but they're in series in the second case. It may be reasonably quick, but it's still noticeably slower than swiping. It's not a big deal, but it's just one of those little annoyances.
rconti 11y ago
Yup. Comment below yours says EMV is fast, but it's just not. You need to stand there and wait with your card in the read for for the processing step. Maybe not 5 seconds, but a non-trivial amount of time. With a swipe, you'd have your card back in your wallet as the authentication was completing. If we had chip+pin it would be a different story, but because we have to sign, the EMV+sign process is slower than swipe+sign.

ctdonath 11y ago

In many places in USA, chip cards take significantly longer than swiping - like 10-30 seconds.

jonknee 11y ago
It's really astonishing that the credit card companies thought that mandating a much slower process was going to work. Should be a huge boon for Apple/Android Pay though.
- serge2k 11y ago
  What's astonishing is how far behind the rest of the world the US is in adopting the technology.
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    That's a problem with being first adopter: the considerable investment in early infrastructure leaves you with early infrastructure which is hard & expensive to replace, contrasted with later adopters who take advantage of scale, lessons, and bypassing incremental steps.

cballard 11y ago

What is the purpose of the signature, anyways? Mine never looks anywhere close to the same as before, and most of the readers at the bad grocery store next to my apartment just select seemingly random pixels anyways when you touch it. Is this seriously a security measure? Even if it did matter, it's on the back of the card anyways, for someone to copy! Why not just get rid of it?