11 ms·

Car Engines: The incredible shrinking machine

27 points by e15ctr0n 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  I don't see a typo? The sentence is a dog's breakfast, but it seems correct enough by Economist standards.
  - pfortuny 11y ago
    Saloons are not usually part of a family house. Usually.
    - rwmj 11y ago
      "Saloon" (meaning car) is a normal British English term (apparently they are called Sedans in the US), and the Economist is a British paper.
      - qbrass 11y ago
        If you watch old westerns, the doors on a saloon (the bar) swing outward from the center as someone walked through them. The name was originally given to cars that have normal opening front doors and suicide rear doors which would have a similar appearance when you opened them. Eventually it started being applied to any 4 door regardless of how the doors opened.
  - mpclark 11y ago
    "Pig's breakfast" and "dog's dinner", FWIW :)
    - jamessb 11y ago
      The expression "dog's breakfast" is also correct - the OED lists it as being first used in 1892 (vs. 1933 for "pig's breakfast"): "dog's breakfast n. slang (in early use only similative) a confused mess; = dog's dinner n." http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/56405#eid6367451 http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/56405#eid6367451
- Sideshow_Boob 11y ago
  you must be new to The Economist
rwmj 11y ago
Europe really needs a Kei car classification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car
- seszett 11y ago
  What difference should this classification make compared to existing car legislation? Among the financial advantages mentioned on the Wikipedia article, only the VAT (presumably?) break has meaning in Europe, or at least in France, since the other advantages are either on taxes or requirements that don't exist here (weight tax, road tax, adequate parking requirement) or insurance (which already depends on engine power here). It seems to be closer to the existing license-less car category, actually (which are also limited to 50 km/h and barred from entering highways).
  - rwmj 11y ago
    Cars taking up physically less space could be taxed less (or, my preference, large SUVs taxed more). You use less road space, less parking space, less materials, so that is a reasonable tax policy. The UK has a road tax which could cover this, but VAT could also be used to tax the car less at time of purchase. Current cars have settled on a certain size, for historical reasons. In fact they seem to be getting a bit bigger. But there's no particular reason for a car to be bigger than a single human being, or other sizes (two humans + one suitcase perhaps). We can use the tax system to change that for the better. This isn't a pie-in-the-sky unproven idea either. Kei cars are hugely popular in Japan, demonstrating that the market exists. They're pretty practical - I've driven in a 6 seat Kei-car in Japan, and there are Kei vans and Kei flatbed delivery trucks (all fitting into the smaller dimensions).
    - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
      > Cars taking up physically less space could be taxed less (or, my preference, large SUVs taxed more). What would the benefit of this be? You do not get anything by saving space because the car still takes up the same space on a parking lot. It's not taking up half the space so you can fit two cars there. > This isn't a pie-in-the-sky unproven idea either. Kei cars are hugely popular in Japan, demonstrating that the market exists. But that's because the economics in Japan are completely different. None of the reasons why people buy kei cars would make any sense in Europe. People buy cars here because they travel distances and they don't want to die in the process. Kei cars (same with moped cars or what you want to call them) are death traps on highways. If you are in cities in Europe you don't drive a car anyways.
cconcepts 11y ago
Most people remember the analogy that if car engines had progressed at the same rate as computing then a rolls Royce would run at 100,000 km/h and have an engine the size of this full stop. Or something similar. Ironically, it seems we're now at the end of the internal combustion era and the abacus makers are desperately trying to refine a soon to be redundant craft.
- eru 11y ago
  That's normal. As another example, the most sophisticated stone tools come from the very tail end of the stone age (or beyond).
- elorant 11y ago
  Unless a breakthrough in battery design happens we're far from the end of the combustion engine era. And with oil prices tanking the price difference between a conventional and an electric car still looks unreasonable for most people.
- CompelTechnic 11y ago
  I think it will be a long time (100 years) until ICE's get replaced in semi trucks and container ships. The energy storage requirements are massive, and batteries for such applications have a much harder time justifying themselves.
  - cconcepts 11y ago
    You make a good point - small nuclear powerplants though?
    - jandrese 11y ago
      While the technical hurdles may be surmountable, the political issues are probably intractable. About the only viable green solution for container ships is going back to sails. Some ships already fly sails (really kites) to reduce their fuel costs, but it's not practical as the ship's only propulsion. The best solution is probably to switch ships over to burning natural gas or biodiesel instead of filthy heavy fuel oil, but the cost structure is all wrong for this right now.
ccozan 11y ago
I recently switched from a 15 yrs old VW Golf IV with 1.6l and 100HP to a 2009 Tiguan with just 1.4l but 150HP. I can't say that it has a better mileage but the power is there, the 50% more HP makes a real difference. I was really skeptical at the beginning, but the progress in engine design is indeed visible.
- switch007 11y ago
  Your golf was a non-turbo petrol right? The Tiguan is a TSI which means a turbocharger and a supercharger :)
Derbasti 11y ago
So "PS" is metric for horsepower. Who knew. (it's German for horsepower, but German horses are just as powerful as imperial ones, and not particularly metric: PS literally means "Pferdestärken", i.e. "horse-powers") The metric measure would be kW.
- cardinalfang 11y ago
  Metric horses, though obsolete, are 98.6% as powerful as imperial horses.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Unfortunately they're not just as powerful. Things couldn't possibly be that simple. An imperial horsepower is about 746W, whereas a "metric" horsepower is about 735W. This will make the "metric" figure look slightly overstated if you're assuming the imperial one.
vlehto 11y ago
>Three-cylinder engines have a tendency to rock backwards and forwards around the middle cylinder. Carmakers have come up with a number of ways to absorb the vibrations and make sure such engines don’t shake, rattle and roll. I'm skeptical how effective that is. Smells like planned obsolescence. >These include more new materials, such as what the industry calls diamond-like carbon (DLC) coatings for the surfaces of moving parts. "Diamond like" sounds nice. But it's soluble to steel. I'd prefer Boron Nitride or TiN by physical vapor deposition. But if other contact surface is coated, then you might be able to use that DLC stuff. But if I recall correctly, it's wear characteristics are not that miraculous in bearings.
- thenewwazoo 11y ago
  > I'm skeptical how effective that is. Smells like planned obsolescence. I'm not sure why it smells like that to you. Perhaps the word "absorb" is insufficiently precise. The correct term is perhaps "counterbalance", and it's purely mechanical. Some modern parts have fluid chambers and flexible rubber components to damp oscillation, but that's not "planned obsolescence" because the parts will very likely outlast the rest of the car.
  - vlehto 11y ago
    Four cylinders is inherently more balanced than three. Fatigue is the second worst killer of mechanisms, right after corrosion. Vibration causes fatigue. The best ideas to balance inherently unstable engine involve balancing axle. But even they usually are not as good as inherently balanced.
    - thenewwazoo 11y ago
      But the entire point is that they've invented a novel mechanism for counterbalancing vibrations that are unique to the three cylinder. When you do that, you reduce vibration. This reduces fatigue. It's worth noting as well that there's no such thing as "inherently balanced" when you're talking about ICEs (except perhaps the inline 6). Four-cylinders are inherently balanced in one mode (first harmonic), imbalanced in another (secondary imbalance), and exhibit torsional effects that may as well be imbalance.

27 points by e15ctr0n 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

CamperBob2 11y ago
I don't see a typo? The sentence is a dog's breakfast, but it seems correct enough by Economist standards.
- pfortuny 11y ago
  Saloons are not usually part of a family house. Usually.
  - rwmj 11y ago
    "Saloon" (meaning car) is a normal British English term (apparently they are called Sedans in the US), and the Economist is a British paper.
    - qbrass 11y ago
      If you watch old westerns, the doors on a saloon (the bar) swing outward from the center as someone walked through them. The name was originally given to cars that have normal opening front doors and suicide rear doors which would have a similar appearance when you opened them. Eventually it started being applied to any 4 door regardless of how the doors opened.
- mpclark 11y ago
  "Pig's breakfast" and "dog's dinner", FWIW :)
  - jamessb 11y ago
    The expression "dog's breakfast" is also correct - the OED lists it as being first used in 1892 (vs. 1933 for "pig's breakfast"): "dog's breakfast n. slang (in early use only similative) a confused mess; = dog's dinner n." http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/56405#eid6367451 http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/56405#eid6367451
Sideshow_Boob 11y ago
you must be new to The Economist

rwmj 11y ago

Europe really needs a Kei car classification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

seszett 11y ago
What difference should this classification make compared to existing car legislation? Among the financial advantages mentioned on the Wikipedia article, only the VAT (presumably?) break has meaning in Europe, or at least in France, since the other advantages are either on taxes or requirements that don't exist here (weight tax, road tax, adequate parking requirement) or insurance (which already depends on engine power here). It seems to be closer to the existing license-less car category, actually (which are also limited to 50 km/h and barred from entering highways).
- rwmj 11y ago
  Cars taking up physically less space could be taxed less (or, my preference, large SUVs taxed more). You use less road space, less parking space, less materials, so that is a reasonable tax policy. The UK has a road tax which could cover this, but VAT could also be used to tax the car less at time of purchase. Current cars have settled on a certain size, for historical reasons. In fact they seem to be getting a bit bigger. But there's no particular reason for a car to be bigger than a single human being, or other sizes (two humans + one suitcase perhaps). We can use the tax system to change that for the better. This isn't a pie-in-the-sky unproven idea either. Kei cars are hugely popular in Japan, demonstrating that the market exists. They're pretty practical - I've driven in a 6 seat Kei-car in Japan, and there are Kei vans and Kei flatbed delivery trucks (all fitting into the smaller dimensions).
  - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
    > Cars taking up physically less space could be taxed less (or, my preference, large SUVs taxed more). What would the benefit of this be? You do not get anything by saving space because the car still takes up the same space on a parking lot. It's not taking up half the space so you can fit two cars there. > This isn't a pie-in-the-sky unproven idea either. Kei cars are hugely popular in Japan, demonstrating that the market exists. But that's because the economics in Japan are completely different. None of the reasons why people buy kei cars would make any sense in Europe. People buy cars here because they travel distances and they don't want to die in the process. Kei cars (same with moped cars or what you want to call them) are death traps on highways. If you are in cities in Europe you don't drive a car anyways.

cconcepts 11y ago

Most people remember the analogy that if car engines had progressed at the same rate as computing then a rolls Royce would run at 100,000 km/h and have an engine the size of this full stop. Or something similar. Ironically, it seems we're now at the end of the internal combustion era and the abacus makers are desperately trying to refine a soon to be redundant craft.

eru 11y ago
That's normal. As another example, the most sophisticated stone tools come from the very tail end of the stone age (or beyond).
elorant 11y ago
Unless a breakthrough in battery design happens we're far from the end of the combustion engine era. And with oil prices tanking the price difference between a conventional and an electric car still looks unreasonable for most people.
CompelTechnic 11y ago
I think it will be a long time (100 years) until ICE's get replaced in semi trucks and container ships. The energy storage requirements are massive, and batteries for such applications have a much harder time justifying themselves.
- cconcepts 11y ago
  You make a good point - small nuclear powerplants though?
  - jandrese 11y ago
    While the technical hurdles may be surmountable, the political issues are probably intractable. About the only viable green solution for container ships is going back to sails. Some ships already fly sails (really kites) to reduce their fuel costs, but it's not practical as the ship's only propulsion. The best solution is probably to switch ships over to burning natural gas or biodiesel instead of filthy heavy fuel oil, but the cost structure is all wrong for this right now.

ccozan 11y ago

I recently switched from a 15 yrs old VW Golf IV with 1.6l and 100HP to a 2009 Tiguan with just 1.4l but 150HP. I can't say that it has a better mileage but the power is there, the 50% more HP makes a real difference. I was really skeptical at the beginning, but the progress in engine design is indeed visible.

switch007 11y ago
Your golf was a non-turbo petrol right? The Tiguan is a TSI which means a turbocharger and a supercharger :)

Derbasti 11y ago

So "PS" is metric for horsepower. Who knew. (it's German for horsepower, but German horses are just as powerful as imperial ones, and not particularly metric: PS literally means "Pferdestärken", i.e. "horse-powers") The metric measure would be kW.

cardinalfang 11y ago
Metric horses, though obsolete, are 98.6% as powerful as imperial horses.
mikeash 11y ago
Unfortunately they're not just as powerful. Things couldn't possibly be that simple. An imperial horsepower is about 746W, whereas a "metric" horsepower is about 735W. This will make the "metric" figure look slightly overstated if you're assuming the imperial one.

vlehto 11y ago

>Three-cylinder engines have a tendency to rock backwards and forwards around the middle cylinder. Carmakers have come up with a number of ways to absorb the vibrations and make sure such engines don’t shake, rattle and roll. I'm skeptical how effective that is. Smells like planned obsolescence. >These include more new materials, such as what the industry calls diamond-like carbon (DLC) coatings for the surfaces of moving parts. "Diamond like" sounds nice. But it's soluble to steel. I'd prefer Boron Nitride or TiN by physical vapor deposition. But if other contact surface is coated, then you might be able to use that DLC stuff. But if I recall correctly, it's wear characteristics are not that miraculous in bearings.

thenewwazoo 11y ago
> I'm skeptical how effective that is. Smells like planned obsolescence. I'm not sure why it smells like that to you. Perhaps the word "absorb" is insufficiently precise. The correct term is perhaps "counterbalance", and it's purely mechanical. Some modern parts have fluid chambers and flexible rubber components to damp oscillation, but that's not "planned obsolescence" because the parts will very likely outlast the rest of the car.
- vlehto 11y ago
  Four cylinders is inherently more balanced than three. Fatigue is the second worst killer of mechanisms, right after corrosion. Vibration causes fatigue. The best ideas to balance inherently unstable engine involve balancing axle. But even they usually are not as good as inherently balanced.
  - thenewwazoo 11y ago
    But the entire point is that they've invented a novel mechanism for counterbalancing vibrations that are unique to the three cylinder. When you do that, you reduce vibration. This reduces fatigue. It's worth noting as well that there's no such thing as "inherently balanced" when you're talking about ICEs (except perhaps the inline 6). Four-cylinders are inherently balanced in one mode (first harmonic), imbalanced in another (secondary imbalance), and exhibit torsional effects that may as well be imbalance.