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So Chairman Pötsch said "All of this was caused by a desire to expand diesel sales in the US, a desire that wasn't matched with sufficient time or budget to dev

So Chairman Pötsch said "All of this was caused by a desire to expand diesel sales in the US, a desire that wasn't matched with sufficient time or budget to develop engines that fully complied with the tough NOx emissions regulations of the US." The unsaid implication being that someone was pushing that desire, and the very much danced around implication of either "Management said we have to sell more cars no matter what it takes" (indicating management knew about it and didn't care) or possibly even "Management wants to sell more cars and you must make cars more sellable at all costs" (indicating that the developers were afraid for their jobs if they spoke up about potential misdeeds while making cars more attractive to consumers.) Someone, somewhere, either felt like they couldn't blow the whistle without getting fired (obviously a problem) or management knew about the rule breaking and just didn't care (which is a bigger problem.)

masklinn 11y ago
> Someone, somewhere, either felt like they couldn't blow the whistle without getting fired (obviously a problem) or management knew about the rule breaking and just didn't care (which is a bigger problem.) Don't forget somebody blowing the whistle to the hierarchy and a middle-mangler (of justice) "losing" the call. Feynman recounts multiple instances of manglement ignoring or railroading warnings and whistleblowing from engineers and workers, both in and out of NASA, when they didn't fail to consult with their report entirely. Here's a verbatim quote from "Why do you care what other people think" (norton paperback, page 185) > When I left the meeting, I had the definite impression that I had found the same game as with the seals: management reducing criteria and accepting more and more errors that weren't designed into the device, while the engineers are screaming from below, "HELP!" and "This is a RED ALERT!" And top manglement may not only know (and not care) about the issues but cause them, see this other quote a few pages further (194) in the Software Group section (Feynman had been very impressed — positively — by the engineering discipline of the shuttle software group) > One guy muttered something about higher-ups in NASA wanting to cut back on testing to save money: "They keep saying we always pass the tests, so what's the use of having so many?"
- Shivetya 11y ago
  process driven cultures tend to generate a lot of apathy from the standpoint that speaking up is systematically discouraged as there is no reward. doesn't matter how right your position is, far more will follow a process to any end as the process itself provides cover from fallout and failure
  - masklinn 11y ago
    Feynman recounts very much the opposite (of apathy), that engineers and even factory workers had remained surprisingly (to him) involved, interested and high in morale, e.g. recounting his meeting with the workers reshaping and reassembling the solid rocket booster sections: > the point is, the workers were thinking! I got the impression that they were not undisciplined; they were very interested in what they were doing, but they weren't given much encouragement. Nobody was paying much attention to them. It was remarkable that their morale was as high as it was under the circumstances.
    - Shivetya 11y ago
      apathy does not necessarily manifest in bad morale, if anything it can be a coping mechanism. let alone in such groups the idea of not rocking the boat is similar to the Wilder effect; you be what they expect when asked because to disagree causes discomfort or the need to be seen as a team player is real
      - masklinn 11y ago
        > apathy does not necessarily manifest in bad morale Apathy is defined as a lack of interest, enthusiasm or concern, the text I quote is about Feynman finding none of these lacking.
lyschoening 11y ago
It's entirely possible that nobody wanted to blow the whistle. This scandal involved making the cars pass some foreign emissions standard by tweaking the engine software. The people responsible for approving engine compliance were also the people responsible for making it compliant (something that VW says it will change now). Even if a bunch of people were involved, they might have liked their solution. The CEO created pressure with his ambition for VW to become the world's largest auto manufacturer; meanwhile the company had a culture and structure that would allow for shortcuts to be taken.
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  eh, I find it hard to believe that this was a conspiracy by a restricted group. engineers are know to know how to calculate an engine efficiency. this is not the 60's and they can have a pretty decent knowledge of an engine performance profile by their simulations and knowledge of previous iterations of the same engines. if this really was an internal 'conspiracy' it should have run from the engine engineers of this engine iteration, the previous iteration, the software developers that touched near the code, all the testers testing that software code, all the qa that ran the endless benches run for the engine to qualify for robustness (a very tight and monitor environment [1]), whomever touched that data afterward etc etc. [1] think like this, photi not actual wv center: http://assets.slate.wvu.edu/resources/1117/1304968590.jpg http://assets.slate.wvu.edu/resources/1117/1304968590.jpg

masklinn 11y ago

> Someone, somewhere, either felt like they couldn't blow the whistle without getting fired (obviously a problem) or management knew about the rule breaking and just didn't care (which is a bigger problem.) Don't forget somebody blowing the whistle to the hierarchy and a middle-mangler (of justice) "losing" the call. Feynman recounts multiple instances of manglement ignoring or railroading warnings and whistleblowing from engineers and workers, both in and out of NASA, when they didn't fail to consult with their report entirely. Here's a verbatim quote from "Why do you care what other people think" (norton paperback, page 185) > When I left the meeting, I had the definite impression that I had found the same game as with the seals: management reducing criteria and accepting more and more errors that weren't designed into the device, while the engineers are screaming from below, "HELP!" and "This is a RED ALERT!" And top manglement may not only know (and not care) about the issues but cause them, see this other quote a few pages further (194) in the Software Group section (Feynman had been very impressed — positively — by the engineering discipline of the shuttle software group) > One guy muttered something about higher-ups in NASA wanting to cut back on testing to save money: "They keep saying we always pass the tests, so what's the use of having so many?"

Shivetya 11y ago
process driven cultures tend to generate a lot of apathy from the standpoint that speaking up is systematically discouraged as there is no reward. doesn't matter how right your position is, far more will follow a process to any end as the process itself provides cover from fallout and failure
- masklinn 11y ago
  Feynman recounts very much the opposite (of apathy), that engineers and even factory workers had remained surprisingly (to him) involved, interested and high in morale, e.g. recounting his meeting with the workers reshaping and reassembling the solid rocket booster sections: > the point is, the workers were thinking! I got the impression that they were not undisciplined; they were very interested in what they were doing, but they weren't given much encouragement. Nobody was paying much attention to them. It was remarkable that their morale was as high as it was under the circumstances.
  - Shivetya 11y ago
    apathy does not necessarily manifest in bad morale, if anything it can be a coping mechanism. let alone in such groups the idea of not rocking the boat is similar to the Wilder effect; you be what they expect when asked because to disagree causes discomfort or the need to be seen as a team player is real
    - masklinn 11y ago
      > apathy does not necessarily manifest in bad morale Apathy is defined as a lack of interest, enthusiasm or concern, the text I quote is about Feynman finding none of these lacking.

lyschoening 11y ago

It's entirely possible that nobody wanted to blow the whistle. This scandal involved making the cars pass some foreign emissions standard by tweaking the engine software. The people responsible for approving engine compliance were also the people responsible for making it compliant (something that VW says it will change now). Even if a bunch of people were involved, they might have liked their solution. The CEO created pressure with his ambition for VW to become the world's largest auto manufacturer; meanwhile the company had a culture and structure that would allow for shortcuts to be taken.

LoSboccacc 11y ago
eh, I find it hard to believe that this was a conspiracy by a restricted group. engineers are know to know how to calculate an engine efficiency. this is not the 60's and they can have a pretty decent knowledge of an engine performance profile by their simulations and knowledge of previous iterations of the same engines. if this really was an internal 'conspiracy' it should have run from the engine engineers of this engine iteration, the previous iteration, the software developers that touched near the code, all the testers testing that software code, all the qa that ran the endless benches run for the engine to qualify for robustness (a very tight and monitor environment [1]), whomever touched that data afterward etc etc. [1] think like this, photi not actual wv center: http://assets.slate.wvu.edu/resources/1117/1304968590.jpg http://assets.slate.wvu.edu/resources/1117/1304968590.jpg