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These techniques are useful when you have a large pool of young extremely healthy men. Then when they blow out knees, shoulders, back, etc you can just select t

by Afton 11y ago

These techniques are useful when you have a large pool of young extremely healthy men. Then when they blow out knees, shoulders, back, etc you can just select the ones who didn't break. Claiming that this is a useful and effective way to train is a terrible idea. The only reason this kind of article is useful at all is that virtually everyone who trains a sport fails to train hard enough. In other words, after you remove all the fancy language and rah-rah spirit, you are left with "You should probably try harder". And that's probably good advice. My two cents.

dockd 11y ago
Absolutely on the first point. I believe the #1 thing the Navy wants from SEALs is people who just won't quit. The Nave doesn't train them not to quit, it just creates tests that search for this quality. I'm unconvinced that the SEAL in question suddenly realized one day there was a "secret" to not quitting; it's just how he's hardwired.
cpncrunch 11y ago
The other problem is overtraining: http://www.outsideonline.com/1986361/running-empty http://www.outsideonline.com/1986361/running-empty Sometimes you get to the point where the harder you attempt to push through fatigue, the more likely you are to do long-term harm. Unfortunately it's difficult figuring out when you've reached that point.
crikli 11y ago
I regularly participate in events known as GORUCK Challenges. They're 12 hour+ endurance events led by current and former special forces operatives from all branches of the military. Yes, there are plenty of young extremely healthy men at these events, but they're the minority. The majority of participants are over 30 years old, in good but not great or extreme condition, and tend to be 10-30% female. These events are hard. Hours of PT, carrying of heavy objects for hours at a time, all while wearing a backpack that weighs at minimum 25#. Success rate is about 94%. Yes, there is some principle of self-selection at work whereupon if you're dumb enough to sign up for such a thing you're predisposed to survival, but the biggest reason that participants finish is because we are all capable of so much more than we think. That's the point of the article, IMO. Don't try harder, just don't fucking quit. Hell, try less if that's what it takes to not quit. Edit: accidentally hit enter too soon. I wanted to say something about "not training hard enough" not being the issue with most athletes I see, rather they're training too hard with poorly designed programming.
- wpietri 11y ago
  > Hell, try less if that's what it takes to not quit [...] most athletes I see [...] they're training too hard Yeah, this was a huge lesson for me. I was used to being good at the things I spent time on. So when I'd try doing sporty things, I'd overestimate my current level and underestimate how much work it takes to improve. Training would be awful and discouraging and I'd quit. Less ambitious training was the key for me to learn to not give up. At this point I've done a couple of triathlons and I don't know how many distance runs. I never would have gotten there without a big dose of humility and being realistic.
- Afton 11y ago
  I can do 6 chinups right now (I happen to have tested last night of all things). If I tried to do 100 chinups, I would certainly be scheduling a Physical Therapy session tomorrow to deal with the pain in my elbow. Unless I was having surgery for a tear in my shoulder. There is lots to recommend "don't give up". But it also has to be tempered with "Stop if it hurts". You'll get fit/strong/endurancy-faster if you can keep training tomorrow than if you have to spend three weeks icing your wrists and gobbling down NSAIDs. EDIT: Leaving this up for posterity because why not. After re-reading your comment, I'm not convinced that we disagree. It's just that the whole thing becomes extremely nuanced once you start talking about things like: "I'm stopping doing e.g. chinups today so that I can do more tomorrow. I'm not giving up on my goal, I'm just altering the timeframe". Here it's not clear how you should interpret the "Don't give up" mantra.
  - foiejapofijw 11y ago
    You said you can do 6 chinups right now, but if you tried to do 100, you'd be in physical therapy the next day. Trying to do 100 implies you're going to do as many as you can. Given that, are you scheduling a physical therapy session, since you did as many as you could last night (6)?
    - mbrameld 11y ago
      Most people would understand that the poster meant after 6 chinups the poster reaches muscle failure and stops trying to do more. The poster could continue to struggle against the muscle failure until (s)he eventually achieves 100 chinups, but that would result in physical injury to go along with the achievement.

by Afton 11y ago

dockd 11y ago

Absolutely on the first point. I believe the #1 thing the Navy wants from SEALs is people who just won't quit. The Nave doesn't train them not to quit, it just creates tests that search for this quality. I'm unconvinced that the SEAL in question suddenly realized one day there was a "secret" to not quitting; it's just how he's hardwired.

cpncrunch 11y ago

The other problem is overtraining: http://www.outsideonline.com/1986361/running-empty http://www.outsideonline.com/1986361/running-empty Sometimes you get to the point where the harder you attempt to push through fatigue, the more likely you are to do long-term harm. Unfortunately it's difficult figuring out when you've reached that point.

crikli 11y ago

I regularly participate in events known as GORUCK Challenges. They're 12 hour+ endurance events led by current and former special forces operatives from all branches of the military. Yes, there are plenty of young extremely healthy men at these events, but they're the minority. The majority of participants are over 30 years old, in good but not great or extreme condition, and tend to be 10-30% female. These events are hard. Hours of PT, carrying of heavy objects for hours at a time, all while wearing a backpack that weighs at minimum 25#. Success rate is about 94%. Yes, there is some principle of self-selection at work whereupon if you're dumb enough to sign up for such a thing you're predisposed to survival, but the biggest reason that participants finish is because we are all capable of so much more than we think. That's the point of the article, IMO. Don't try harder, just don't fucking quit. Hell, try less if that's what it takes to not quit. Edit: accidentally hit enter too soon. I wanted to say something about "not training hard enough" not being the issue with most athletes I see, rather they're training too hard with poorly designed programming.

wpietri 11y ago
> Hell, try less if that's what it takes to not quit [...] most athletes I see [...] they're training too hard Yeah, this was a huge lesson for me. I was used to being good at the things I spent time on. So when I'd try doing sporty things, I'd overestimate my current level and underestimate how much work it takes to improve. Training would be awful and discouraging and I'd quit. Less ambitious training was the key for me to learn to not give up. At this point I've done a couple of triathlons and I don't know how many distance runs. I never would have gotten there without a big dose of humility and being realistic.
Afton 11y ago
I can do 6 chinups right now (I happen to have tested last night of all things). If I tried to do 100 chinups, I would certainly be scheduling a Physical Therapy session tomorrow to deal with the pain in my elbow. Unless I was having surgery for a tear in my shoulder. There is lots to recommend "don't give up". But it also has to be tempered with "Stop if it hurts". You'll get fit/strong/endurancy-faster if you can keep training tomorrow than if you have to spend three weeks icing your wrists and gobbling down NSAIDs. EDIT: Leaving this up for posterity because why not. After re-reading your comment, I'm not convinced that we disagree. It's just that the whole thing becomes extremely nuanced once you start talking about things like: "I'm stopping doing e.g. chinups today so that I can do more tomorrow. I'm not giving up on my goal, I'm just altering the timeframe". Here it's not clear how you should interpret the "Don't give up" mantra.
- foiejapofijw 11y ago
  You said you can do 6 chinups right now, but if you tried to do 100, you'd be in physical therapy the next day. Trying to do 100 implies you're going to do as many as you can. Given that, are you scheduling a physical therapy session, since you did as many as you could last night (6)?
  - mbrameld 11y ago
    Most people would understand that the poster meant after 6 chinups the poster reaches muscle failure and stops trying to do more. The poster could continue to struggle against the muscle failure until (s)he eventually achieves 100 chinups, but that would result in physical injury to go along with the achievement.