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> When the effect is merely to pressure, and not to convince, then in that particular context, people who may have been legitimately oppressed have (temporarily

> When the effect is merely to pressure, and not to convince, then in that particular context, people who may have been legitimately oppressed have (temporarily) become the oppressors. Putting pressure on someone to behave themselves isn't oppression. You can't possibly have gone through life without seeing actual oppression. > It becomes bullying when people are only vilified, placed in an irredeemable category, then effectively punished in some way. Nobody is irredeemable; but some people don't want redemption. When people refuse to behave themselves, they get shunned. This is a normal human defense mechanism.

mring33621 11y ago
You do realize that "behave themselves" is subjective?
- kaonashi 11y ago
  Apparently when certain people exercise their subjectivity instead of remaining silent, it's bullying.
oxide 11y ago
>When people refuse to behave themselves, they get shunned. and who decides what behavior is acceptable? you? don't make me laugh. you, and those like you, are bullies. plain and simple. cut and dry. black and white. some might even call you "thought-bullies."
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Putting pressure on someone to behave themselves isn't oppression. Oppression is usually viewed by oppressors as putting pressure on the oppressed to behave properly.
- kaonashi 11y ago
  Right, so like using the police to criminalize a minority population. Or the real estate industry colluding to keep out a minority from living in a certain area. Or asking someone not to wear a demeaning shirt. All totally the same thing.
  - oxide 11y ago
    what you are condoning is not politely asking, as if that ever got anything accomplished in this world. polite requests can be politely ignored. you are condoning bullying. bullying is threatening and demeaning in a way a shirt can only hope to one day accomplish, for the record.
    - kaonashi 11y ago
      Threatened with what? Severe disappointment?
      - stcredzero 11y ago
        Being excluded from a group is a pretty severe penalty, emotionally. Our instincts associate group membership with survival. Membership in groups can have significant impacts on the quality and status of contacts. If wearing a t-shirt once can make others feel uncomfortable and not included, and this situation is wrong, then it is also wrong to permanently or too severely sanction the t-shirt wearer. Such a situation should be discussed calmly and resolved.
stcredzero 11y ago
You can't possibly have gone through life without seeing actual oppression. I have, in actuality, been the subject of ethnic/racially based harassment, to the point where the police got involved. (The perpetrators were caught, but I was pressured by the police to not file charges.) I grew up in a part of the country where the family had to drive 45 miles to visit with friends who were also asian, but not the exact same ethnic group. Yes, I know a little about actual oppression. Yes, there were other weird group hazings I experienced in my youth. When people refuse to behave themselves, they get shunned. This is a normal human defense mechanism. The default human reaction is to label the different as the wrong and the other. The normal human defense mechanism, when not properly cultivated and educated, is precisely the psychological foundation of oppression. I know this first hand. Do you know why the Freedom of Speech is enshrined in the US Constitution? It's precisely because normal human defense mechanisms result in the outright oppression of those with different points of view. And it's precisely this sort of lack of self-awareness and self-examination that allows normal people to take on the role of oppressor.

mring33621 11y ago

You do realize that "behave themselves" is subjective?

kaonashi 11y ago
Apparently when certain people exercise their subjectivity instead of remaining silent, it's bullying.

oxide 11y ago

>When people refuse to behave themselves, they get shunned. and who decides what behavior is acceptable? you? don't make me laugh. you, and those like you, are bullies. plain and simple. cut and dry. black and white. some might even call you "thought-bullies."

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Putting pressure on someone to behave themselves isn't oppression. Oppression is usually viewed by oppressors as putting pressure on the oppressed to behave properly.

kaonashi 11y ago
Right, so like using the police to criminalize a minority population. Or the real estate industry colluding to keep out a minority from living in a certain area. Or asking someone not to wear a demeaning shirt. All totally the same thing.
- oxide 11y ago
  what you are condoning is not politely asking, as if that ever got anything accomplished in this world. polite requests can be politely ignored. you are condoning bullying. bullying is threatening and demeaning in a way a shirt can only hope to one day accomplish, for the record.
  - kaonashi 11y ago
    Threatened with what? Severe disappointment?
    - stcredzero 11y ago
      Being excluded from a group is a pretty severe penalty, emotionally. Our instincts associate group membership with survival. Membership in groups can have significant impacts on the quality and status of contacts. If wearing a t-shirt once can make others feel uncomfortable and not included, and this situation is wrong, then it is also wrong to permanently or too severely sanction the t-shirt wearer. Such a situation should be discussed calmly and resolved.

stcredzero 11y ago

You can't possibly have gone through life without seeing actual oppression. I have, in actuality, been the subject of ethnic/racially based harassment, to the point where the police got involved. (The perpetrators were caught, but I was pressured by the police to not file charges.) I grew up in a part of the country where the family had to drive 45 miles to visit with friends who were also asian, but not the exact same ethnic group. Yes, I know a little about actual oppression. Yes, there were other weird group hazings I experienced in my youth. When people refuse to behave themselves, they get shunned. This is a normal human defense mechanism. The default human reaction is to label the different as the wrong and the other. The normal human defense mechanism, when not properly cultivated and educated, is precisely the psychological foundation of oppression. I know this first hand. Do you know why the Freedom of Speech is enshrined in the US Constitution? It's precisely because normal human defense mechanisms result in the outright oppression of those with different points of view. And it's precisely this sort of lack of self-awareness and self-examination that allows normal people to take on the role of oppressor.