6 ms·

I think a lot of these job postings would have a lot more success if they showed salary ranges, in fact that just applies to all job postings. Why apply for EU

I think a lot of these job postings would have a lot more success if they showed salary ranges, in fact that just applies to all job postings. Why apply for EU remote working (if living in the EU) when you can remote work for a US based company? The timezone is off but programmers should be able to work autonomously and independently.

netcan 11y ago
Not posting salaries always baffles me. I mean, I understand the negotiating advantage. Maybe also wanting to keep salary information quite within the company. But, surely, this is a relevant piece of information for the person deciding to apply. I'm surprised jobs sites don't enforce it. Only jobs with salary information are allowed.
- ido 11y ago
  I've worked my entire career in Germany, Austria & Israel and not once did I see a job ad advertise salary. This might be location dependent?
  - wlievens 11y ago
    Same in Belgium, except for public sector jobs.
  - netcan 11y ago
    At a quick glance, it doesn't seem to be common but not absolutely unheard of either. http://www.alljobs.co.il/Search/UploadSingle.aspx?JobID=3720650 http://www.alljobs.co.il/Search/UploadSingle.aspx?JobID=3720... You can sort and search by salary here: http://www.jobmaster.co.il/code/check/search.asp?headcatnum=15&orderBy=1 http://www.jobmaster.co.il/code/check/search.asp?headcatnum=...
  - marssaxman 11y ago
    How on earth do you determine which jobs are worth applying to, then?
    - ido 11y ago
      I apply to those that sounds interesting (company and/or project) & if both sides want to go on after the interview we discuss salary. A couple of times this proved to be the breaking point but not that often.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- scalesolved 11y ago
  Indeed, when I applied for my last job if I found an interesting company I'd always check for salary information, quite a few companies have that info on https://angel.co/ https://angel.co/ If the information wasn't easily available then there was no way I was going to waste my time to apply for a job that might not even be close to the ballpark of what I'm looking for.
- estefan 11y ago
  I'm sure it must just lead to rubbish applicants. I'd be amazed if anyone with any options would waste their time hunting for salaries when they can deal with companies who at least give them an indicative range. I have literally never applied for a job that didn't have a salary listed, and don't intend to.
  - netcan 11y ago
    Well, first of all, the relative number of times different people apply for jobs in a lifetime throws any kind of average/median out whack^. Some people never apply for any job off a posting. Some apply for hundreds. The former group tends to have more desirable employees. Anyway… If you look at general job postings on most boards, a large chunk (sometimes majority) don't even have the job in the job posting, nevermind a salary. These are resume gathering exercises by recruiters. "My client is a fortune 5000 company seeking…" People still apply to these. ^ http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDevelopers.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDeveloper...
- victorantos 11y ago
  You just gave me this idea, I should enforce the salary field for my daily imports for AngJobs(https://github.com/victorantos/AngJobs https://github.com/victorantos/AngJobs) Thank you!
  - netcan 11y ago
    nice
eps 11y ago
Imagine yourself working for a company and coming across one of its job postings for a position similar to yours. If posted salary is lower than yours, then you might be overpaid (meaning that you might be on your way out). If it's higher, then you'll feel like you are underpaid. Either way this does no good neither to you or the company. Hence no salaries in job postings.
- scalesolved 11y ago
  If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation. I'm not asking for an exact figure just a rough range as everything is always up for negotiation. "Either way this does no good neither to you or the company." <- I have to disagree there, you should always know if you are underpaid or that your company tries to get similarly skilled individuals for lower salaries. Not revealing salaries I think hurts companies recruitment processes more than they realise, how many great candidates passed on applying due to not wanting to have to dig a figure out of the company. I assume they think by not revealing salaries they'll get applicants who could command the highest rate they are willing to pay PLUS 30% more applying and being offered the job and then going 'yeah I'm fine to work for 30% less'.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation. Of course you do. But for the exact same reasons the company doesn't want you to -- that's what the parent is saying.
    - scalesolved 11y ago
      I had the impression that the parent implied the situation was advantageous to both employees and companies yet in reality it's only advantageous to the companies.
ido 11y ago
A lot of employers want employees that will be active during normal business hours (+/- a couple hours). There are still quite huge wage & cost of living differences, e.g. a Bulgarian programmer working remotely for a Danish, Norwegian, Swiss or English company will be getting several multiples of what they'd be able to get locally and still be in roughly the same time zone (which is important for some companies/individuals). I am living in Berlin and work remotely for a west-coast Canadian company (9 hours time zone shift) and it is in many ways quite a sacrifice.
- klipt 11y ago
  If same timezone is all you want, why restrict it to EU? Cape Town is the same time zone as Bulgaria, and if you're outsourcing anyway EU citizenship doesn't matter.
  - ido 11y ago
    I think you're reading too much into the name - it's simply a site that collates job offers that align well with European time zones. It doesn't actually say you have to have an EU citizenship, anyone can apply to the ads collected by it.
jasonkester 11y ago
Especially considering the huge disconnect between what EU and US employers consider reasonable. I see [salary missing] and read "probably pays EU35,000 for a Senior Dev." If you are willing to hire from the EU talent pool, and are happy to pay US rates to do so, that is something you should shout from the rooftops. It will get you the cream of the crop. And I'd be willing to bet there is some very good cream here.
- scalesolved 11y ago
  Absolutely, I work for a globally distributed company who are based in the US and the employees that are in the EU are easily some of the most talented people I've ever worked with!
- jsingleton 11y ago
  Not listing salary just wastes people's time and I've never liked the practice. You either have to go through the process just to find out it wasn't worth it or just not bother. Every company must have a budget in mind, they just want to spend as little as possible. For a recent free community project that I've launched [0] one of the unique selling points (along with no recruiters and doing good) is that the salary is always stated. All of the employers that have used the service have been happy to provide at least a salary range, even if it isn't shown on the job ad they have on their website. [0] https://cleanwebjobs.com https://cleanwebjobs.com
passthefist 11y ago
One big upside I can think of would establishing a permanent residency in the country of your employer. I'm currently working remote for a US based company, and was only able to stay in Ireland for three months on a 90-day visa. There's also a 90 day limit every 180 for US Citizens in the Schengen zone (most EU states, minus UK+Ireland). This is actually a problem I'm actively looking to solve, since I'd like to spend more time there. I'd imagine that working for an EU company would help when applying for various exemptions or longer stay visa.

netcan 11y ago

Not posting salaries always baffles me. I mean, I understand the negotiating advantage. Maybe also wanting to keep salary information quite within the company. But, surely, this is a relevant piece of information for the person deciding to apply. I'm surprised jobs sites don't enforce it. Only jobs with salary information are allowed.

ido 11y ago
I've worked my entire career in Germany, Austria & Israel and not once did I see a job ad advertise salary. This might be location dependent?
- wlievens 11y ago
  Same in Belgium, except for public sector jobs.
- netcan 11y ago
  At a quick glance, it doesn't seem to be common but not absolutely unheard of either. http://www.alljobs.co.il/Search/UploadSingle.aspx?JobID=3720650 http://www.alljobs.co.il/Search/UploadSingle.aspx?JobID=3720... You can sort and search by salary here: http://www.jobmaster.co.il/code/check/search.asp?headcatnum=15&orderBy=1 http://www.jobmaster.co.il/code/check/search.asp?headcatnum=...
- marssaxman 11y ago
  How on earth do you determine which jobs are worth applying to, then?
  - ido 11y ago
    I apply to those that sounds interesting (company and/or project) & if both sides want to go on after the interview we discuss salary. A couple of times this proved to be the breaking point but not that often.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
scalesolved 11y ago
Indeed, when I applied for my last job if I found an interesting company I'd always check for salary information, quite a few companies have that info on https://angel.co/ https://angel.co/ If the information wasn't easily available then there was no way I was going to waste my time to apply for a job that might not even be close to the ballpark of what I'm looking for.
estefan 11y ago
I'm sure it must just lead to rubbish applicants. I'd be amazed if anyone with any options would waste their time hunting for salaries when they can deal with companies who at least give them an indicative range. I have literally never applied for a job that didn't have a salary listed, and don't intend to.
- netcan 11y ago
  Well, first of all, the relative number of times different people apply for jobs in a lifetime throws any kind of average/median out whack^. Some people never apply for any job off a posting. Some apply for hundreds. The former group tends to have more desirable employees. Anyway… If you look at general job postings on most boards, a large chunk (sometimes majority) don't even have the job in the job posting, nevermind a salary. These are resume gathering exercises by recruiters. "My client is a fortune 5000 company seeking…" People still apply to these. ^ http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDevelopers.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FindingGreatDeveloper...
victorantos 11y ago
You just gave me this idea, I should enforce the salary field for my daily imports for AngJobs(https://github.com/victorantos/AngJobs https://github.com/victorantos/AngJobs) Thank you!
- netcan 11y ago
  nice

eps 11y ago

Imagine yourself working for a company and coming across one of its job postings for a position similar to yours. If posted salary is lower than yours, then you might be overpaid (meaning that you might be on your way out). If it's higher, then you'll feel like you are underpaid. Either way this does no good neither to you or the company. Hence no salaries in job postings.

scalesolved 11y ago
If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation. I'm not asking for an exact figure just a rough range as everything is always up for negotiation. "Either way this does no good neither to you or the company." <- I have to disagree there, you should always know if you are underpaid or that your company tries to get similarly skilled individuals for lower salaries. Not revealing salaries I think hurts companies recruitment processes more than they realise, how many great candidates passed on applying due to not wanting to have to dig a figure out of the company. I assume they think by not revealing salaries they'll get applicants who could command the highest rate they are willing to pay PLUS 30% more applying and being offered the job and then going 'yeah I'm fine to work for 30% less'.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation. Of course you do. But for the exact same reasons the company doesn't want you to -- that's what the parent is saying.
  - scalesolved 11y ago
    I had the impression that the parent implied the situation was advantageous to both employees and companies yet in reality it's only advantageous to the companies.

ido 11y ago

A lot of employers want employees that will be active during normal business hours (+/- a couple hours). There are still quite huge wage & cost of living differences, e.g. a Bulgarian programmer working remotely for a Danish, Norwegian, Swiss or English company will be getting several multiples of what they'd be able to get locally and still be in roughly the same time zone (which is important for some companies/individuals). I am living in Berlin and work remotely for a west-coast Canadian company (9 hours time zone shift) and it is in many ways quite a sacrifice.

klipt 11y ago
If same timezone is all you want, why restrict it to EU? Cape Town is the same time zone as Bulgaria, and if you're outsourcing anyway EU citizenship doesn't matter.
- ido 11y ago
  I think you're reading too much into the name - it's simply a site that collates job offers that align well with European time zones. It doesn't actually say you have to have an EU citizenship, anyone can apply to the ads collected by it.

jasonkester 11y ago

Especially considering the huge disconnect between what EU and US employers consider reasonable. I see [salary missing] and read "probably pays EU35,000 for a Senior Dev." If you are willing to hire from the EU talent pool, and are happy to pay US rates to do so, that is something you should shout from the rooftops. It will get you the cream of the crop. And I'd be willing to bet there is some very good cream here.

scalesolved 11y ago
Absolutely, I work for a globally distributed company who are based in the US and the employees that are in the EU are easily some of the most talented people I've ever worked with!
jsingleton 11y ago
Not listing salary just wastes people's time and I've never liked the practice. You either have to go through the process just to find out it wasn't worth it or just not bother. Every company must have a budget in mind, they just want to spend as little as possible. For a recent free community project that I've launched [0] one of the unique selling points (along with no recruiters and doing good) is that the salary is always stated. All of the employers that have used the service have been happy to provide at least a salary range, even if it isn't shown on the job ad they have on their website. [0] https://cleanwebjobs.com https://cleanwebjobs.com

passthefist 11y ago

One big upside I can think of would establishing a permanent residency in the country of your employer. I'm currently working remote for a US based company, and was only able to stay in Ireland for three months on a 90-day visa. There's also a 90 day limit every 180 for US Citizens in the Schengen zone (most EU states, minus UK+Ireland). This is actually a problem I'm actively looking to solve, since I'd like to spend more time there. I'd imagine that working for an EU company would help when applying for various exemptions or longer stay visa.