4 ms·

This is another example of why gun control, particularly in the U.S., is an increasingly silly argument to make.

by DGAP 11y ago

Trufa 11y ago
Why? There are many aspects that would be covered by gun control, not just mass shootings. Lower the suicide rate: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/ http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-owne... The risk of you or family getting shot: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full And again, I don't think any serious argument in favor of some sort of gun control argues that it will eliminate the problem, just reduce it.
rodgerd 11y ago
Yes, those of us living in gun-controlled hellholes where we don't wonder if our kids' school will be the 20th shot up this year, or where gun nuts with AR-15 can legally show up to intimidate us at our mosques, surely crave the freedom of America's gun culture.
- douche 11y ago
  Statistically, you're more likely to get hit by lightning than have your child's school shot up. Irrational fear of firearms seems to be overwhelmingly centered in those that haven't used them, and don't understand them. It's just a chunk of metal, wood and polymer.
  - hughperkins 11y ago
    72 people are killed by firearms each day in USA. So, if you have 500 Facebook friends from America, you can expect just over 4 of them to be killed by firearms during your lifetime.
    - douche 11y ago
      43 of those people stuck the gun in their own mouth and pulled the trigger[1]. I don't find it particularly unlikely that over the course of my lifetime, four out of 500 people I know would commit suicide. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Suicides_involving_firearms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...
    - paulddraper 11y ago
      How many were saved by civilian-owned firearms? The problem is, we don't really know. Even with the reporting bias, there more reported legal defensive uses of guns than injuries by gun violence. But how many uses actually saved a life? Hard to tell.
      - hga 11y ago
        By definition you can't really know. But the reported number of uses are huge, 1 million/year some years ago, based on a survey taken by a gun grabbing outfit that didn't count multiple times per year for respondants. 2.5 million/year nowadays is the best effort estimate. Counterwise, just like in self-defense, guns are used in crimes a whole lot of times without them being fired, or hitting someone if fired, or killing if so. And that's not even counting things like the burglar who carries one just in case, but never sees another human during the crime, although I suppose an estimate of that could be made. Which in principle is just like my carrying concealed almost every time I walk outside my home, just in case, although my odds are much lower.
        paulddraper 11y ago
        If a gun (or other weapon), is possessed, that makes it a violent crime, e.g. aggravated robbery. So you can get some handle on gun use (even when not fired) in crimes.
        hga 11y ago
        That we already have, although you really need to look at the surveys as well as the FBI's Uniform Crime report, since there's a lot of falsification in various localities to lower the severity of reported crimes to make it look like the police are being effective. I'm just wondering about putting together statistics on the number of uninterrupted burglaries and what burglars say about how often they're armed. I know an number avoid it to avoid the sentencing enhancements if they're caught in the act, and that from all the ones that go really bad, plenty carry weapons with them.
- paulddraper 11y ago
  Move to France.
- hga 11y ago
  "Gun controlled hellholes" that don't include Finland and Germany in just the last decade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe It's a canard that this sort of thing only happens in the US, even if you restrict the opposite to "the developed world". In incidents and casualties, we're in the middle of the pack.

This is another example of why gun control, particularly in the U.S., is an increasingly silly argument to make.

by DGAP 11y ago

This is another example of why gun control, particularly in the U.S., is an increasingly silly argument to make.

Trufa 11y ago

Why? There are many aspects that would be covered by gun control, not just mass shootings. Lower the suicide rate: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/ http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-owne... The risk of you or family getting shot: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full And again, I don't think any serious argument in favor of some sort of gun control argues that it will eliminate the problem, just reduce it.

rodgerd 11y ago

Yes, those of us living in gun-controlled hellholes where we don't wonder if our kids' school will be the 20th shot up this year, or where gun nuts with AR-15 can legally show up to intimidate us at our mosques, surely crave the freedom of America's gun culture.

douche 11y ago
Statistically, you're more likely to get hit by lightning than have your child's school shot up. Irrational fear of firearms seems to be overwhelmingly centered in those that haven't used them, and don't understand them. It's just a chunk of metal, wood and polymer.
- hughperkins 11y ago
  72 people are killed by firearms each day in USA. So, if you have 500 Facebook friends from America, you can expect just over 4 of them to be killed by firearms during your lifetime.
  - douche 11y ago
    43 of those people stuck the gun in their own mouth and pulled the trigger[1]. I don't find it particularly unlikely that over the course of my lifetime, four out of 500 people I know would commit suicide. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Suicides_involving_firearms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...
  - paulddraper 11y ago
    How many were saved by civilian-owned firearms? The problem is, we don't really know. Even with the reporting bias, there more reported legal defensive uses of guns than injuries by gun violence. But how many uses actually saved a life? Hard to tell.
    - hga 11y ago
      By definition you can't really know. But the reported number of uses are huge, 1 million/year some years ago, based on a survey taken by a gun grabbing outfit that didn't count multiple times per year for respondants. 2.5 million/year nowadays is the best effort estimate. Counterwise, just like in self-defense, guns are used in crimes a whole lot of times without them being fired, or hitting someone if fired, or killing if so. And that's not even counting things like the burglar who carries one just in case, but never sees another human during the crime, although I suppose an estimate of that could be made. Which in principle is just like my carrying concealed almost every time I walk outside my home, just in case, although my odds are much lower.
      - paulddraper 11y ago
        If a gun (or other weapon), is possessed, that makes it a violent crime, e.g. aggravated robbery. So you can get some handle on gun use (even when not fired) in crimes.
        hga 11y ago
        That we already have, although you really need to look at the surveys as well as the FBI's Uniform Crime report, since there's a lot of falsification in various localities to lower the severity of reported crimes to make it look like the police are being effective. I'm just wondering about putting together statistics on the number of uninterrupted burglaries and what burglars say about how often they're armed. I know an number avoid it to avoid the sentencing enhancements if they're caught in the act, and that from all the ones that go really bad, plenty carry weapons with them.
paulddraper 11y ago
Move to France.
hga 11y ago
"Gun controlled hellholes" that don't include Finland and Germany in just the last decade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe It's a canard that this sort of thing only happens in the US, even if you restrict the opposite to "the developed world". In incidents and casualties, we're in the middle of the pack.