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I don't really buy the "criminals have them, so I need one too" argument. Are you genuinely so in fear for your family's' safety, that you need a firearm and a

I don't really buy the "criminals have them, so I need one too" argument. Are you genuinely so in fear for your family's' safety, that you need a firearm and ammunition on hand? If that is the case, and I were in your position,I would seriously consider moving elsewhere before I armed myself. I live in a country where they were banned some time ago for all civilians who don't have a very good reason for owning one. ("Because I like them", or "I need to protect my property/family" are not considered good reasons). Many farmers and rural types were very angry about the ban when it was proposed and implemented. But now, the vast majority of the population considers it to be the crowning achievement of the politician who implemented it. Guns and gun crime are now so rare in my city that almost every time a gun is used to commit a crime it is front page news.

fein 11y ago
> Guns and gun crime are now so rare in my city that almost every time a gun is used to commit a crime it is front page news. And yet it still happens. Additionally, you're from AU; You have a very different culture and level of poverty that you really don't see in the US. We (the US) have issues with income disparity unseen in a first world country, and the majority of the gun crimes occur in that area (poor urban areas). Poverty is a huge driver for crime. Fix that problem and gun crimes plummet. Are you aware that knife crimes are up some 10+% in AU versus gun crimes? It seems that the criminals are still willing to be criminals. Take a look at Vermont for example. Pretty boring if you want to live in an urban area, but probably the safest state in the US with the most relaxed gun laws. Vermont allows concealed carry without a permit; what we call "constitutional carry".
- satori99 11y ago
  It's true that our respective societies are very different (despite their similarities). We do not really have a small-town society in Australia. Almost all Australians live in large cities, and metro areas. This urban mindset is definitely reflected in our policies and laws. It is worth noting however, that Sydney (where I live), is larger than every city in the US, except New York. And yet I am vastly (something like 400x) less likely to be the victim of any gun related crime than a US city dweller.
  - cgriswald 11y ago
    That's the trick, isn't it? By referring to "gun crime" it looks like, magically, crime has disappeared along with the guns. But it isn't relevant whether a victim of a mugging is faced with a gun or a knife, so it's not "gun crime" that's interesting, but "crime". In countries that have banned guns, including Australia, the restriction on guns has done nothing to reduce crime. In every single country that has banned them (again including Australia) there was an initial uptick of crime. The UK in particular had a massive increase in homocides (the number one reason people give as to why guns should be banned) and also saw home invasions where the victims were physically at home at the time of the invasion increase. Australia was lucky in that after its uptick, crime returned to normal rates. In many other countries, crime has continued to trend upward.
    - satori99 11y ago
      I don't think it is down to luck that Australia has had had zero mass shootings by crazy people since the our government implemented a mandatory buyback, and destroyed hundreds of thousands of weapons almost 20 years ago.
      - refurb 11y ago
        Mass shootings in Australia were rare before the gun laws were strengthened. Also, Australia still has guns including plenty of rifles and even handguns. You banned some types of guns, not all of them.
        satori99 11y ago
        Australia also had only 18M citizens at the time. But the zero massacres since 1996 is still significant. Yes, guns are still available for sports shooters, and hunting etc. But we also strengthened the laws concerning how weapons must be stored (in a safe). The police have the right to turn up at the door of any registered gun owner and demand to inspect their storage at any time. I am not sure how often that actually happens, because my guns are all digital :P
aianus 11y ago
> If that is the case, and I were in your position, I would seriously consider moving elsewhere before I armed myself. Most people who live in those areas can't really afford to do that. In any case, the onus is on the prohibitionist to defend the policy of prohibition, not the other way around. "Guns increased your chances of dying this year by 0.003%" (~11k gun homicides over 300M population) is a totally unmoving argument to me and I suspect most people in the US. At those risk levels, might as well ban cigarettes, motorcycles, aspirin, alcohol, leaving the house...

fein 11y ago

> Guns and gun crime are now so rare in my city that almost every time a gun is used to commit a crime it is front page news. And yet it still happens. Additionally, you're from AU; You have a very different culture and level of poverty that you really don't see in the US. We (the US) have issues with income disparity unseen in a first world country, and the majority of the gun crimes occur in that area (poor urban areas). Poverty is a huge driver for crime. Fix that problem and gun crimes plummet. Are you aware that knife crimes are up some 10+% in AU versus gun crimes? It seems that the criminals are still willing to be criminals. Take a look at Vermont for example. Pretty boring if you want to live in an urban area, but probably the safest state in the US with the most relaxed gun laws. Vermont allows concealed carry without a permit; what we call "constitutional carry".

satori99 11y ago
It's true that our respective societies are very different (despite their similarities). We do not really have a small-town society in Australia. Almost all Australians live in large cities, and metro areas. This urban mindset is definitely reflected in our policies and laws. It is worth noting however, that Sydney (where I live), is larger than every city in the US, except New York. And yet I am vastly (something like 400x) less likely to be the victim of any gun related crime than a US city dweller.
- cgriswald 11y ago
  That's the trick, isn't it? By referring to "gun crime" it looks like, magically, crime has disappeared along with the guns. But it isn't relevant whether a victim of a mugging is faced with a gun or a knife, so it's not "gun crime" that's interesting, but "crime". In countries that have banned guns, including Australia, the restriction on guns has done nothing to reduce crime. In every single country that has banned them (again including Australia) there was an initial uptick of crime. The UK in particular had a massive increase in homocides (the number one reason people give as to why guns should be banned) and also saw home invasions where the victims were physically at home at the time of the invasion increase. Australia was lucky in that after its uptick, crime returned to normal rates. In many other countries, crime has continued to trend upward.
  - satori99 11y ago
    I don't think it is down to luck that Australia has had had zero mass shootings by crazy people since the our government implemented a mandatory buyback, and destroyed hundreds of thousands of weapons almost 20 years ago.
    - refurb 11y ago
      Mass shootings in Australia were rare before the gun laws were strengthened. Also, Australia still has guns including plenty of rifles and even handguns. You banned some types of guns, not all of them.
      - satori99 11y ago
        Australia also had only 18M citizens at the time. But the zero massacres since 1996 is still significant. Yes, guns are still available for sports shooters, and hunting etc. But we also strengthened the laws concerning how weapons must be stored (in a safe). The police have the right to turn up at the door of any registered gun owner and demand to inspect their storage at any time. I am not sure how often that actually happens, because my guns are all digital :P

aianus 11y ago

> If that is the case, and I were in your position, I would seriously consider moving elsewhere before I armed myself. Most people who live in those areas can't really afford to do that. In any case, the onus is on the prohibitionist to defend the policy of prohibition, not the other way around. "Guns increased your chances of dying this year by 0.003%" (~11k gun homicides over 300M population) is a totally unmoving argument to me and I suspect most people in the US. At those risk levels, might as well ban cigarettes, motorcycles, aspirin, alcohol, leaving the house...