4 ms·

"as she approaches 60, but her knees aren't up to long distances." @cafard, know the feeling. Most of the people I know who ran seriously retired in their 40's

"as she approaches 60, but her knees aren't up to long distances." @cafard, know the feeling. Most of the people I know who ran seriously retired in their 40's, knees smashed. What caught my interest in this article was the quote: "After about 1,553 miles, the researchers noted that the cartilage that normally cushions joints showed signs of breaking down. But after that point, the runners started building their cartilage again, even without rest. " What's going on there? (my disclosure: Keenwalk, 2010 http://seldomlogical.com/2011/MAR/12/keenwalk-why-i-went/ http://seldomlogical.com/2011/MAR/12/keenwalk-why-i-went/ cf Hackernews https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1126078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1126078 and regular 2000km/yr PT)

DiabloD3 11y ago
Wait, if they kept walking past the point of damage... cartilage damage would start going away?! Am I reading what you quoted correctly?
- bootload 11y ago
  "cartilage damage would start going away?" Running. That's what I quoted from the article. Don't believe it is significant enough though. The citation follows [0] and one study of 44 runners? [0] Uwe Schütz, M.D (specialist in orthopedics and trauma surgery in the Department of Diagnostic and Interventional Radiology at the University Hospital of Ulm in Germany) Jürgen Machann, M.D., and Christian Billich, M.D. "Imaging Identifies Cartilage Regeneration in Long-Distance Runners" Abstract: https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/rsna/media/pr2015/schuetz/abstract/Schuetz.pdf https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/rsna/media/pr2015/schuetz/abs... and some more explanation: - https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/pr_target.cfm?ID=506 https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/pr_target... - https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_target.cfm?id=1848 https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_tar...
- cgriswald 11y ago
  That actually makes a bit of sense to me. Uneducated guess: The cartilage breaks down, releasing some chemical, hormone, or just bits of cartilage into the blood which the body detects at levels above some threshold, prompting the body to begin producing more cartilage.
  - doug1001 11y ago
    could be right. (i have no idea about this particular instance but) a whole bunch of our metabolic pathways are initiated/regulated through negative feedback loops like the one you described.
jacalata 11y ago
I think recent studies don't support the idea that running destroys your knees, actually.
- austinjp 11y ago
  This is correct. The true picture is complex and not fully understood. Distance running tends to increase surface area of knee cartilage. Lifting weights seems to increase thickness of cartilage. However, thickness of cartilage seems to have a maximum value beyond which it will not increase. This may be because the chondocytes (cells inside the cartilage that produce and maintain it) gain all their nutrition by diffusion, so cartilage that is too thick would prevent adequate nutrition. Lack of activity certainly leads to reduction in cartilage thickness, possibly surface area. It is unclear how exercise should be prescribed to optimally restore this. Irregularities in cartilage surface, due to injury or possibly genetic bad luck, can produce irregular pressure on the underlying bone surface. This seems to be a driving factor in bone changes in early osteoarthritis. Everyone's response to exercise is unique to them. It's not currently easy to say whether distance running is "good for you". However, the benefits of exercise generally outweigh the risks. Personally I suspect that only a tiny minority of people are capable of regularly running marathon distances and benefiting from that. If you are over 40, don't expect to do then save intensity or duration of your younger peers, particularly if you are starting a new form of exercise. Your body has already adapted to your lifestyle, and it will be slower to adapt. But find what works for you, do what feels good, don't compare yourself to others, and enjoy yourself.
  - mironathetin 11y ago
    "But find what works for you, do what feels good, don't compare yourself to others, and enjoy yourself." That sounds good and right, especially 'don't compare yourself to others'. It is a good Zen training to let others go faster and stick to ones own goals.
- VeejayRampay 11y ago
  It really depends on your stride and general form, doesn't it? It sounds reasonable that overstriding (landing with your foot ahead of the imaginary vertical line passing through your body) would place a lot of pressure on the knee, which would result in long-term damage. The same goes for the landing, it's easier on the body to make good use of the natural mechanism present in the arch of the foot by landing on the mid-foot (ball of the foot). Daniel Lieberman (Harvard professor) has excellent research on the subject for those interested.

DiabloD3 11y ago

Wait, if they kept walking past the point of damage... cartilage damage would start going away?! Am I reading what you quoted correctly?

bootload 11y ago
"cartilage damage would start going away?" Running. That's what I quoted from the article. Don't believe it is significant enough though. The citation follows [0] and one study of 44 runners? [0] Uwe Schütz, M.D (specialist in orthopedics and trauma surgery in the Department of Diagnostic and Interventional Radiology at the University Hospital of Ulm in Germany) Jürgen Machann, M.D., and Christian Billich, M.D. "Imaging Identifies Cartilage Regeneration in Long-Distance Runners" Abstract: https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/rsna/media/pr2015/schuetz/abstract/Schuetz.pdf https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/rsna/media/pr2015/schuetz/abs... and some more explanation: - https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/pr_target.cfm?ID=506 https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/pr_target... - https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_target.cfm?id=1848 https://www2.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_tar...
cgriswald 11y ago
That actually makes a bit of sense to me. Uneducated guess: The cartilage breaks down, releasing some chemical, hormone, or just bits of cartilage into the blood which the body detects at levels above some threshold, prompting the body to begin producing more cartilage.
- doug1001 11y ago
  could be right. (i have no idea about this particular instance but) a whole bunch of our metabolic pathways are initiated/regulated through negative feedback loops like the one you described.

jacalata 11y ago

I think recent studies don't support the idea that running destroys your knees, actually.

austinjp 11y ago
This is correct. The true picture is complex and not fully understood. Distance running tends to increase surface area of knee cartilage. Lifting weights seems to increase thickness of cartilage. However, thickness of cartilage seems to have a maximum value beyond which it will not increase. This may be because the chondocytes (cells inside the cartilage that produce and maintain it) gain all their nutrition by diffusion, so cartilage that is too thick would prevent adequate nutrition. Lack of activity certainly leads to reduction in cartilage thickness, possibly surface area. It is unclear how exercise should be prescribed to optimally restore this. Irregularities in cartilage surface, due to injury or possibly genetic bad luck, can produce irregular pressure on the underlying bone surface. This seems to be a driving factor in bone changes in early osteoarthritis. Everyone's response to exercise is unique to them. It's not currently easy to say whether distance running is "good for you". However, the benefits of exercise generally outweigh the risks. Personally I suspect that only a tiny minority of people are capable of regularly running marathon distances and benefiting from that. If you are over 40, don't expect to do then save intensity or duration of your younger peers, particularly if you are starting a new form of exercise. Your body has already adapted to your lifestyle, and it will be slower to adapt. But find what works for you, do what feels good, don't compare yourself to others, and enjoy yourself.
- mironathetin 11y ago
  "But find what works for you, do what feels good, don't compare yourself to others, and enjoy yourself." That sounds good and right, especially 'don't compare yourself to others'. It is a good Zen training to let others go faster and stick to ones own goals.
VeejayRampay 11y ago
It really depends on your stride and general form, doesn't it? It sounds reasonable that overstriding (landing with your foot ahead of the imaginary vertical line passing through your body) would place a lot of pressure on the knee, which would result in long-term damage. The same goes for the landing, it's easier on the body to make good use of the natural mechanism present in the arch of the foot by landing on the mid-foot (ball of the foot). Daniel Lieberman (Harvard professor) has excellent research on the subject for those interested.