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A few times now I've seen announcements that systemd is consuming some other aspect of Linux, and every thread devolves into accusations that systemd is eating

A few times now I've seen announcements that systemd is consuming some other aspect of Linux, and every thread devolves into accusations that systemd is eating Linux, and the other side saying that whatever it is just happens to be in-scope for systemd because of how it interacts with some current aspect of systemd. My question is now: What isn't in scope for systemd?

viraptor 11y ago
The way it's described on https://wiki.freedesktop.org/www/Software/systemd/ https://wiki.freedesktop.org/www/Software/systemd/ almost everything is in scope. Everything that's not an end user application can be considered a basic building block of Linux.
- pzone 11y ago
  That's a ridiculous claim. Systemd is not going to swallow SSL, libjpeg, or GTK. Clearly there are boundaries for it, even if they are a little fuzzy.
  - viraptor 11y ago
    We're talking services / apps, not libraries. systemd needs OpenSSL for example, so no, it's not going to swallow OpenSSL. (SSL itself is a protocol, I assume you mean libraries here) Then again, it could swallow sslproxy by providing sockets with transparent SSL to services which don't talk SSL natively.
LukeShu 11y ago
I think that's a mis-diagnosis. Systemd interacts with a many different external components. OK, that means that systemd developers are exposed to a bunch of different components, and work with them frequently. So, they find a pain-point, and they think to themselves "I could improve this." And, because they are competent developers, and it's free/open-source, they do. Sure, the reason the found a pain-point, and chose to contribute is because of their work systemd, but that contribution isn't in-scope for systemd, isn't associated with systemd. It's just them being good citizens and improving the ecosystem. Now, remember that a significant portion of the systemd developers are also kernel developers, and have been since before systemd existed. So it's not unlikely that because of systemd, they see a way that they think the kernel could be improved. And they're contributing to the kernel anyway, so why not? That said, many people object to the kind of design decisions made in systemd, and don't like that that those kind of decisions are spreading to the rest of the ecosystem. This isn't systemd taking over, this is the fact that certain prolific individuals, who are systemd developers, are also contributing to other projects; naturally making the same kind of decisions.
- ploxiln 11y ago
  Alternatively, you could call them busy-bodies ;)

viraptor 11y ago

The way it's described on https://wiki.freedesktop.org/www/Software/systemd/ https://wiki.freedesktop.org/www/Software/systemd/ almost everything is in scope. Everything that's not an end user application can be considered a basic building block of Linux.

pzone 11y ago
That's a ridiculous claim. Systemd is not going to swallow SSL, libjpeg, or GTK. Clearly there are boundaries for it, even if they are a little fuzzy.
- viraptor 11y ago
  We're talking services / apps, not libraries. systemd needs OpenSSL for example, so no, it's not going to swallow OpenSSL. (SSL itself is a protocol, I assume you mean libraries here) Then again, it could swallow sslproxy by providing sockets with transparent SSL to services which don't talk SSL natively.

LukeShu 11y ago

I think that's a mis-diagnosis. Systemd interacts with a many different external components. OK, that means that systemd developers are exposed to a bunch of different components, and work with them frequently. So, they find a pain-point, and they think to themselves "I could improve this." And, because they are competent developers, and it's free/open-source, they do. Sure, the reason the found a pain-point, and chose to contribute is because of their work systemd, but that contribution isn't in-scope for systemd, isn't associated with systemd. It's just them being good citizens and improving the ecosystem. Now, remember that a significant portion of the systemd developers are also kernel developers, and have been since before systemd existed. So it's not unlikely that because of systemd, they see a way that they think the kernel could be improved. And they're contributing to the kernel anyway, so why not? That said, many people object to the kind of design decisions made in systemd, and don't like that that those kind of decisions are spreading to the rest of the ecosystem. This isn't systemd taking over, this is the fact that certain prolific individuals, who are systemd developers, are also contributing to other projects; naturally making the same kind of decisions.

ploxiln 11y ago
Alternatively, you could call them busy-bodies ;)