11 ms·

Warning signs of cyber crime according to UK National Crime Agency

38 points by CSDude 11y ago

protomyth 11y ago
So, the UK Government thinks every programmer is a criminal?
- scotty79 11y ago
  > Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. No. Some are just presenting normal teenage behaviours.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    The wording suggests that some of them aren't normal teenage behaviors and do suggest a young person is at risk. I wonder which ones they think those are.
  - protomyth 11y ago
    I'm guessing that little caveat won't stop adults from reporting children and taking away their love of programmers.
Fuzzwah 11y ago
Warning signs of cyber crime * Is your child spending all of their time online? * Are they interested in coding? Do they have independent learning material on computing? * Do they have irregular sleeping patterns? * Do they get an income from their online activities, do you know why and how? * Are they resistant when asked what they do online? * Do they use the full data allowance on the home broadband? * Have they become more socially isolated?
- user9982 11y ago
  >Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. But if a young person is showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities. This will allow you to assess their computer knowledge proficiency so you can understand what they are doing, explain the consequences of cyber crime and help them make the right choices. At least quote the rest so you don't misrepresent what they're saying.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Indeed. The whole page seems surprisingly... reasonable.
    - Fuzzwah 11y ago
      The video was also very well done. I was really expecting it to be massively cringe-worthy, but it gets the point across in a great way.
  - joepie91_ 11y ago
    People don't read footnotes. If you start out with a list of "OMG warning signs" and then add an "oh, never mind" disclaimer below it, then the average paranoid parent isn't even going to read beyond the last bulletpoint before confronting their kid. This article is extremely dangerous. EDIT: And when I say "footnote", I mean that more generically, not just with it being literally below the content. People don't read linearly, and will almost certainly read the bulletpoints before they read the text around it.
- thescriptkiddie 11y ago
  Sounds familiar... * Has your son asked you to change ISPs? * Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't remember installing? * Has your child asked for new hardware? * Does your child read hacking manuals? * How much time does your child spend using the computer each day? * Does your son use Quake? * Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour? * Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"? * Has your son radically changed his appearance? * Is your son struggling academically? http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html
Symbiote 11y ago
Related, "The average age of suspected cyber-attackers has dropped dramatically to just 17, the National Crime Agency has said." "We know that simply criminalising young people cannot be the solution to this and so the campaign seeks to help motivate children to use their skills more positively." http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/08/average-age-of-cyber-attack-suspects-drops-to-17 http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/08/average-ag...
KupKLIO 11y ago
Apologies for veering slightly off-topic and the pedantry. Is 'cyber' actually used by technically competent folk now? It's been cropping up alot with the 'cyber' crime, 'cyber' attacks happening in 'cyber' space recently, needing improved 'cyber' security skills. Usually the term's reserved for either mass-media outlets, or people trying to scare you.
- j_h_s 11y ago
  Anecdotally, I only see "cyber" in security-related discussions.
  - jrgifford 11y ago
    So the answer to the question is, of course, nuanced and anecdotal. The media has misused it so much, that much of the information security world (With the exception of pentesters from what I've seen) seems to have given up trying to use the proper terminology. They still seem to be trying to recover the term "hacker", though.
- mediocrejoker 11y ago
  Coincidentally I was reading this earlier today after coming across a comment on a different article questioning whether pros use the term. http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/03/cyborgs-cyberspace-csi-cyber/ http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/03/cyborgs-cyberspac... It seems like cyber is generally used for online badness (cybercrime, cyberwar) while the e- prefix is used for online goodness (e-mail, e-sports, e-commerce)
- stordoff 11y ago
  "Cyberwarfare" etc. are fairly standard words in international law, so if you are working/studying in that field you'll certainly see it being used by the technically competent. My MA Law thesis ended up including it in the title, and I'd consider myself fairly technically competent (I have a BA in Computer Science), though I'll admit it still sounds a little silly to me at times.
- lowpro 11y ago
throwawayukcyb 11y ago
Children committing crimes using computers is a real problem and should not be disregarded. See the last portion of "Reflections on Trusting Trust". That said, this webpage is dangerous and misleading for a lot of reasons, but I'll try to focus on the problems that are actionable: 1. The "warning signs" the article enumerates are almost certainly not significantly correlated with youth who commit cyber crimes. In other words, the warning signs are probably just some made up bullshit someone with arbitrary biases came up with and put online. (Even if it accurately describes every youth convicted of cyber crime, that still doesn't mean that it's remotely likely to be correlated with cyber crime.) In my mind, there's no material difference between teenagers who bully geeks and the author of this article -- both are identifying people who are different from them and then bullying them for being different. The only difference is that the author of this article has fooled themselves into thinking they have a justifiable excuse for painting with a broad brush. 2. The focus on computer security in the alternatives is misplaced. Especially considering the "warning signs". Far better to find the kid some bright mentors who match them intellectually in any field than to focus arbitrarily on computers -- much less computer security! A socially isolated student who's teaching themselves to program is not likely to do much more than roll their eyes if you explain to them that they could spend their life configuring firewalls and installing AV.
- jcrawfordor 11y ago
  I object to your dismissal of my industry as "configuring firewalls and installing AV". Certainly the security industry is not for everyone, but it does have a wide variety of interesting challenges ranging from highly theoretical to highly applied. My friends and coworkers in the security community do everything from mathematics to public policy, with no small amount of software engineering and systems design in between. Many governments and members of private industry also face a significant labor shortage in security right now, which provides a certain motivation for this agency to suggest it to people. A lot of people in the security industry would not even consider "configuring firewalls and installing AV" to be security work, in most organizations that rests with the sysadmins and network engineers, who also have a varied and challenging field.
  - 11y ago
CM30 11y ago
So every hardcore gamer is displaying the 'warning signs of cyber crime' now? Because let's face it, most of those signs also apply pretty well to die hard gamers or video game fans, especially ones who discuss them on internet forums and watch videos on Youtube. But hey, keep buying into the crap about the average cyber criminal being your typical 'geek' or gamer type.
mediocrejoker 11y ago
This reminds me of another article http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html
mangeletti 11y ago
This article, IMHO, represents the fact that, globally, we're approaching Peak Government. As government takes up more and more resources and provides less and less value, it also falls out of touch with reality, and then we get to this point...
gaius 11y ago
When I was a kid there was basically the same list, but for Dungeons & Dragons, which was a gateway to satanism doncha know...

38 points by CSDude 11y ago

protomyth 11y ago

So, the UK Government thinks every programmer is a criminal?

scotty79 11y ago
> Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. No. Some are just presenting normal teenage behaviours.
- mikeash 11y ago
  The wording suggests that some of them aren't normal teenage behaviors and do suggest a young person is at risk. I wonder which ones they think those are.
- protomyth 11y ago
  I'm guessing that little caveat won't stop adults from reporting children and taking away their love of programmers.

Fuzzwah 11y ago

Warning signs of cyber crime * Is your child spending all of their time online? * Are they interested in coding? Do they have independent learning material on computing? * Do they have irregular sleeping patterns? * Do they get an income from their online activities, do you know why and how? * Are they resistant when asked what they do online? * Do they use the full data allowance on the home broadband? * Have they become more socially isolated?

user9982 11y ago
>Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. But if a young person is showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities. This will allow you to assess their computer knowledge proficiency so you can understand what they are doing, explain the consequences of cyber crime and help them make the right choices. At least quote the rest so you don't misrepresent what they're saying.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Indeed. The whole page seems surprisingly... reasonable.
  - Fuzzwah 11y ago
    The video was also very well done. I was really expecting it to be massively cringe-worthy, but it gets the point across in a great way.
- joepie91_ 11y ago
  People don't read footnotes. If you start out with a list of "OMG warning signs" and then add an "oh, never mind" disclaimer below it, then the average paranoid parent isn't even going to read beyond the last bulletpoint before confronting their kid. This article is extremely dangerous. EDIT: And when I say "footnote", I mean that more generically, not just with it being literally below the content. People don't read linearly, and will almost certainly read the bulletpoints before they read the text around it.
thescriptkiddie 11y ago
Sounds familiar... * Has your son asked you to change ISPs? * Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't remember installing? * Has your child asked for new hardware? * Does your child read hacking manuals? * How much time does your child spend using the computer each day? * Does your son use Quake? * Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour? * Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"? * Has your son radically changed his appearance? * Is your son struggling academically? http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html

Symbiote 11y ago

Related, "The average age of suspected cyber-attackers has dropped dramatically to just 17, the National Crime Agency has said." "We know that simply criminalising young people cannot be the solution to this and so the campaign seeks to help motivate children to use their skills more positively." http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/08/average-age-of-cyber-attack-suspects-drops-to-17 http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/08/average-ag...

KupKLIO 11y ago

Apologies for veering slightly off-topic and the pedantry. Is 'cyber' actually used by technically competent folk now? It's been cropping up alot with the 'cyber' crime, 'cyber' attacks happening in 'cyber' space recently, needing improved 'cyber' security skills. Usually the term's reserved for either mass-media outlets, or people trying to scare you.

j_h_s 11y ago
Anecdotally, I only see "cyber" in security-related discussions.
- jrgifford 11y ago
  So the answer to the question is, of course, nuanced and anecdotal. The media has misused it so much, that much of the information security world (With the exception of pentesters from what I've seen) seems to have given up trying to use the proper terminology. They still seem to be trying to recover the term "hacker", though.
mediocrejoker 11y ago
Coincidentally I was reading this earlier today after coming across a comment on a different article questioning whether pros use the term. http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/03/cyborgs-cyberspace-csi-cyber/ http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/03/cyborgs-cyberspac... It seems like cyber is generally used for online badness (cybercrime, cyberwar) while the e- prefix is used for online goodness (e-mail, e-sports, e-commerce)
stordoff 11y ago
"Cyberwarfare" etc. are fairly standard words in international law, so if you are working/studying in that field you'll certainly see it being used by the technically competent. My MA Law thesis ended up including it in the title, and I'd consider myself fairly technically competent (I have a BA in Computer Science), though I'll admit it still sounds a little silly to me at times.
lowpro 11y ago

throwawayukcyb 11y ago

Children committing crimes using computers is a real problem and should not be disregarded. See the last portion of "Reflections on Trusting Trust". That said, this webpage is dangerous and misleading for a lot of reasons, but I'll try to focus on the problems that are actionable: 1. The "warning signs" the article enumerates are almost certainly not significantly correlated with youth who commit cyber crimes. In other words, the warning signs are probably just some made up bullshit someone with arbitrary biases came up with and put online. (Even if it accurately describes every youth convicted of cyber crime, that still doesn't mean that it's remotely likely to be correlated with cyber crime.) In my mind, there's no material difference between teenagers who bully geeks and the author of this article -- both are identifying people who are different from them and then bullying them for being different. The only difference is that the author of this article has fooled themselves into thinking they have a justifiable excuse for painting with a broad brush. 2. The focus on computer security in the alternatives is misplaced. Especially considering the "warning signs". Far better to find the kid some bright mentors who match them intellectually in any field than to focus arbitrarily on computers -- much less computer security! A socially isolated student who's teaching themselves to program is not likely to do much more than roll their eyes if you explain to them that they could spend their life configuring firewalls and installing AV.

jcrawfordor 11y ago
I object to your dismissal of my industry as "configuring firewalls and installing AV". Certainly the security industry is not for everyone, but it does have a wide variety of interesting challenges ranging from highly theoretical to highly applied. My friends and coworkers in the security community do everything from mathematics to public policy, with no small amount of software engineering and systems design in between. Many governments and members of private industry also face a significant labor shortage in security right now, which provides a certain motivation for this agency to suggest it to people. A lot of people in the security industry would not even consider "configuring firewalls and installing AV" to be security work, in most organizations that rests with the sysadmins and network engineers, who also have a varied and challenging field.
- 11y ago

CM30 11y ago

So every hardcore gamer is displaying the 'warning signs of cyber crime' now? Because let's face it, most of those signs also apply pretty well to die hard gamers or video game fans, especially ones who discuss them on internet forums and watch videos on Youtube. But hey, keep buying into the crap about the average cyber criminal being your typical 'geek' or gamer type.

mediocrejoker 11y ago

This reminds me of another article http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html

mangeletti 11y ago

This article, IMHO, represents the fact that, globally, we're approaching Peak Government. As government takes up more and more resources and provides less and less value, it also falls out of touch with reality, and then we get to this point...

gaius 11y ago

When I was a kid there was basically the same list, but for Dungeons & Dragons, which was a gateway to satanism doncha know...