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Let's say you grow up in a poor community where murders happen often but are not often solved. You don't trust the police to serve justice to those who have wro

Let's say you grow up in a poor community where murders happen often but are not often solved. You don't trust the police to serve justice to those who have wronged you. You notice that many of your neighbors solve their problems themselves - by fighting, threatening, killing. People often heckle you because you try to not fight back when people pick on you - there's a culture of toughness and honor all around you. Now someone wrongs you - let's say they hurt your significant other. Are you mentally ill for wanting to serve what you think is justice?

zatkin 11y ago
Doesn't that classify as self-defense?
- nostrademons 11y ago
  IIUC self-defense does not extend to the defense of others, and it applies only when there's an imminent threat to your person. If somebody hurts you and then next week you go over to their house and shoot them dead, it's 1st-degree premeditated murder. Beyond the legal issues, you can get into all sorts of moral issues once you consider uncertainty, culture, and history. Say your sister is in an abusive relationship, and has been beaten severely enough on multiple occasions that you fear for her life. She refuses to go to the police, as many domestic violence victims do. Are you justified in going over to their house and shooting her husband dead? What if you happen to be visiting, but arrive to find him with her hands on her throat, choking her to death? Both scenarios are highly illegal and will get you charged with murder, but morally, many people would have a lot of sympathy for someone in that situation.
  - wnoise 11y ago
    Defense-of-others, strictly speaking, is not the same as self-defense, but they're discussed in the same breath and generally legislated together, and usable in the same circumstances. Thus references to one are generally read as encompassing both. You would indeed be justified in shooting the husband if you stumbled upon him choking her to death (in most jurisdictions), but not if you just expected it to happen eventually.
- gknoy 11y ago
  I think the word you're looking for is "vendetta", or "revenge", and generally isn't considered a valid legal defense for violence. If I find out that someone punched my kid, I'm not allowed to drive to their house with a baseball bat and hit them with it. If I happen to be carrying a bat, and someone starts punching me, I'm _probably_ allowed to use it for defense ... but I am not a lawyer and there are many nuances there as well. :)
- tremon 11y ago
  Indeed, it does not count as self-defense. It counts as retaliation, and it is justified in some societies (e.g. honour killing).

zatkin 11y ago

Doesn't that classify as self-defense?

nostrademons 11y ago
IIUC self-defense does not extend to the defense of others, and it applies only when there's an imminent threat to your person. If somebody hurts you and then next week you go over to their house and shoot them dead, it's 1st-degree premeditated murder. Beyond the legal issues, you can get into all sorts of moral issues once you consider uncertainty, culture, and history. Say your sister is in an abusive relationship, and has been beaten severely enough on multiple occasions that you fear for her life. She refuses to go to the police, as many domestic violence victims do. Are you justified in going over to their house and shooting her husband dead? What if you happen to be visiting, but arrive to find him with her hands on her throat, choking her to death? Both scenarios are highly illegal and will get you charged with murder, but morally, many people would have a lot of sympathy for someone in that situation.
- wnoise 11y ago
  Defense-of-others, strictly speaking, is not the same as self-defense, but they're discussed in the same breath and generally legislated together, and usable in the same circumstances. Thus references to one are generally read as encompassing both. You would indeed be justified in shooting the husband if you stumbled upon him choking her to death (in most jurisdictions), but not if you just expected it to happen eventually.
gknoy 11y ago
I think the word you're looking for is "vendetta", or "revenge", and generally isn't considered a valid legal defense for violence. If I find out that someone punched my kid, I'm not allowed to drive to their house with a baseball bat and hit them with it. If I happen to be carrying a bat, and someone starts punching me, I'm _probably_ allowed to use it for defense ... but I am not a lawyer and there are many nuances there as well. :)
tremon 11y ago
Indeed, it does not count as self-defense. It counts as retaliation, and it is justified in some societies (e.g. honour killing).