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I believe the author's hypothesis is probably correct. It seems the only way to avoid the "well my case is different; violence is justified in this situation be

I believe the author's hypothesis is probably correct. It seems the only way to avoid the "well my case is different; violence is justified in this situation because..."-bias is to instill or promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever". It's the only way you can be sure that you're not falling into the same biases that our "enemies" have fallen into. The more I learn about cognitive biases, the more I think they're probably the cause of almost all interpersonal conflict in modern society (unfortunately, awareness of this fact doesn't make you immune to the phenomenon).

js8 11y ago
> It seems the only way to avoid the "well my case is different; violence is justified in this situation because..."-bias is to instill or promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever". It's the only way you can be sure that you're not falling into the same biases that our "enemies" have fallen into. I agree. I love how this point is made by O'Brien in Orwell's 1984. On the surface, the book is pretty morally clear; but if you look deeper, it's full of moral ambiguities like that (another example is that Winston is himself a party member). Just like in life.
gutnor 11y ago
> promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever" I guess that's generally was is tried in the Western world. Especially (marginally more) in Europe, where even being in the army is not as regarded as in the US, and there is nowhere the same support for the troops even when deployed. But then all of that is drown in a sea of entertainment, the majority of which not only promote virtuous violent reaction, but also show that non-violence generally lead to ridicule or painful death.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- allengeorge 11y ago
  It's easy to believe that violence is not the answer if you can outsource the application of it (to police, other governments, etc.)
paganel 11y ago
> -bias is to instill or promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever". I haven't read it, to be honest, but that's what Kant was saying in his "Perpetual Peace: A Philosophical Sketch" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Peace:_A_Philosophical_Sketch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Peace:_A_Philosophic...). I'd say that even though we're not there yet, we have been getting closer and closer to that ideal in the last 200 years, with the well-known hiccups along the way.
- Neputys 11y ago
  Maybe that's just me, but latest hiccups sometimes look suspiciously like an attempt to turn this trend around. Nice nickname btw. Is it from Captain Grant's Children?
  - paganel 11y ago
    > Nice nickname btw. Is it from Captain Grant's Children Yeap :)
sridca 11y ago
> The more I learn about cognitive biases, the more I think they're probably the cause of almost all interpersonal conflict in modern society Whereas the more I understand about affective impulses, the more I think they're definitely the root cause of all interpersonal conflicts in any society. There is no doubt that cognitive biases play a part, but they ultimately hinge on -- and stem from -- the affective impulses.
kbutler 11y ago
And when confronted with someone violently harming defenseless children in your care? Some believe violence is wrong even then, others believe pacifism is wrong then.
- Xcelerate 11y ago
  My morals don't necessarily match up with what I would do in certain situations.
  - Retra 11y ago
    That's like saying you don't believe in monsters, yet refusing to open the closet. Your morals match exactly what you would do. What you say about your morals doesn't. What you are is what you do, after all, not what you imagine yourself to be.
    - kbutler 11y ago
      Our morals guide what we hope to become, but aren't always reflected by what we are today.
    - ionised 11y ago
      Your morals and your instincts are two different things.
      - Retra 11y ago
        Instinct is just an innate morality.
        ionised 11y ago
        I can't say I agree fully. We have instinctual behaviour that leads us to group cooperation, avoiding theft and murder etc. A lot of our morality and legal systems stem from this. On the other hand instinct can lead people to do some seriously shitty things and we try to suppress it in those cases. Morality is a code or system of conduct that you aspire to in order to become a better or more virtuous person. We derive some of it from instinct and some from philosphy.

js8 11y ago

> It seems the only way to avoid the "well my case is different; violence is justified in this situation because..."-bias is to instill or promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever". It's the only way you can be sure that you're not falling into the same biases that our "enemies" have fallen into. I agree. I love how this point is made by O'Brien in Orwell's 1984. On the surface, the book is pretty morally clear; but if you look deeper, it's full of moral ambiguities like that (another example is that Winston is himself a party member). Just like in life.

gutnor 11y ago

> promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever" I guess that's generally was is tried in the Western world. Especially (marginally more) in Europe, where even being in the army is not as regarded as in the US, and there is nowhere the same support for the troops even when deployed. But then all of that is drown in a sea of entertainment, the majority of which not only promote virtuous violent reaction, but also show that non-violence generally lead to ridicule or painful death.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
allengeorge 11y ago
It's easy to believe that violence is not the answer if you can outsource the application of it (to police, other governments, etc.)

paganel 11y ago

> -bias is to instill or promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever". I haven't read it, to be honest, but that's what Kant was saying in his "Perpetual Peace: A Philosophical Sketch" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Peace:_A_Philosophical_Sketch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Peace:_A_Philosophic...). I'd say that even though we're not there yet, we have been getting closer and closer to that ideal in the last 200 years, with the well-known hiccups along the way.

Neputys 11y ago
Maybe that's just me, but latest hiccups sometimes look suspiciously like an attempt to turn this trend around. Nice nickname btw. Is it from Captain Grant's Children?
- paganel 11y ago
  > Nice nickname btw. Is it from Captain Grant's Children Yeap :)

sridca 11y ago

> The more I learn about cognitive biases, the more I think they're probably the cause of almost all interpersonal conflict in modern society Whereas the more I understand about affective impulses, the more I think they're definitely the root cause of all interpersonal conflicts in any society. There is no doubt that cognitive biases play a part, but they ultimately hinge on -- and stem from -- the affective impulses.

kbutler 11y ago

And when confronted with someone violently harming defenseless children in your care? Some believe violence is wrong even then, others believe pacifism is wrong then.

Xcelerate 11y ago
My morals don't necessarily match up with what I would do in certain situations.
- Retra 11y ago
  That's like saying you don't believe in monsters, yet refusing to open the closet. Your morals match exactly what you would do. What you say about your morals doesn't. What you are is what you do, after all, not what you imagine yourself to be.
  - kbutler 11y ago
    Our morals guide what we hope to become, but aren't always reflected by what we are today.
  - ionised 11y ago
    Your morals and your instincts are two different things.
    - Retra 11y ago
      Instinct is just an innate morality.
      - ionised 11y ago
        I can't say I agree fully. We have instinctual behaviour that leads us to group cooperation, avoiding theft and murder etc. A lot of our morality and legal systems stem from this. On the other hand instinct can lead people to do some seriously shitty things and we try to suppress it in those cases. Morality is a code or system of conduct that you aspire to in order to become a better or more virtuous person. We derive some of it from instinct and some from philosphy.