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Keep in mind it's possible to win territory during a defensive war... There was no great Russian conquest. Early Russian history consisted of cultural expansi
by Mikeb85 11y ago
Keep in mind it's possible to win territory during a defensive war...
There was no great Russian conquest. Early Russian history consisted of cultural expansion of Slavic tribes. Kievan Rus started when Vikings (Varangians) became the rulers of Novgorod (by invitation), then assimilated into Slavic culture and established Kievan Rus (Kiev + various territories along the Dnieper to preserve trade with Constantinople). They eventually unified the various Slavic lands, won territory from the Khazars (who of course were nomadic Turkic tribes who invaded from the steppes), until Kievan Rus was eventually destroyed by the Mongol Horde, and Russian cities were forced to pay tribute to the Khans.
'Modern' Russia was established when the Muscovites expelled the Tatars and Mongols from Russia, fought off the Lithuanians, Poles, and others (Arabs, Persians, Germans, French, British, etc...), colonized Siberia (which, much as today, was largely a frozen wasteland), and you get the 'modern' Russian empire.
It's history, though bloody from various conflicts, didn't involve massive conquest or colonialism (unlike the Khazars, Khans, Tatars, Poles, Lithuanians, Swedes and Germans they fought against). Russia started as Slavic tribes who were indigenous to the region, not foreign invaders from the steppes, or from the west.
- vdaniuk 11y ago>didn't involve massive conquest or colonialism This is demonstrably false. http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/50/3850-004-87B10401.jpg http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/50/3850-004-87B10... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War#Russian_expansionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War#Russian_expansioni... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Massacres_of_indigenous_peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Ma... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#Russian_E... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#Soviet_Un... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement
- Mikeb85 11y agoBecause the Mongols were indigenous to Siberia, right? And had never attacked Russia at any point in history, right? Maybe you should research the establishment of various western countries, to compare? Or how the various empires the fledgling Russian empire fought against were themselves established... Edit - you keep editing it. Anyhow, as for Crimea, neither the Tatars nor British nor Ottomans were indigenous to Crimea. Your point is what, that history is messy? Look up the histories of the various foes that Russia fought in your links, most of them weren't indigenous to those regions, and themselves were invaders. Unless you think Islam is indigenous to the Caucasus, and southern Russia/Ukraine, and not a result of various Muslim conquests north...
- vdaniuk 11y agoMy point is that your statement "[Russia expansion] didn't involve massive conquest or colonialism" is demonstrably false. No amount of whataboutism or moving goalposts will be able to change that.
- Mikeb85 11y agoAgain, Slavic peoples are indigenous to Russia. Turks, Mongols, Tatars, Lithuanians, Swedes, Arabs, etc..., aren't.
- guard-of-terra 11y agoOne can argue that uralic people (чудь) were rightfully indigenous to Russia.
- Mikeb85 11y agoThey're indigenous to a part of modern day Russia. Based on their genetic composition and linguistics (as well as their own distribution) they likely migrated from central Asia northwards, to Siberia, northern Russia, Finland, northern Sweden, etc... The other major Uralic group (Magyars/Hungarians) went south, joined with Khazar groups, and eventually spread to modern day Hungary. No archaeologist or historian doubts that Slavs are indigenous to the territory that is modern western Russia/Belarus/Ukraine...