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The transition is indeed an improvement, but there is a dangerous myth spreading: that e-cigarette smoke (as exhaled by smokers) is "completely harmless". I've
by jwr 11y ago
The transition is indeed an improvement, but there is a dangerous myth spreading: that e-cigarette smoke (as exhaled by smokers) is "completely harmless". I've heard people describe it as "just water vapor".
Well it isn't harmless, and transitioning from a traditional tobacco cigarette to an e-cigarette doesn't mean you can just start smoking everywhere.
- dsr_ 11y agoIn my experience, walking twenty paces behind a vaper vaping is even more unpleasant than walking four paces behind a cigarette smoker smoking.
- michaelbuddy 11y agoI'm the opposite. I think the e-cigs often smell kind of good and the scent is quickly gone. Also the smell doesn't instantly get into my clothes. Different kind of particulates I guess.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoWhat do they put in those e-cigarettes then? :o. I've personally converted my ex-gf to e-cigarettes and I'm spending a lot of time around people smoking them, and not only I can barely see the smoke, I can't smell it even standing in front of a smoker and having them breathe in my direction.
- Lewton 11y agoThere's a breed of e-cig smokers that are doing what humans always do when they get a new hobby- take it to the extremes. I walked down the street a couple of weeks ago and saw massive smoke coming from around the corner. And when I smelled it I thought "Someone's really hitting that BBQ!". It was a guy standing on his balcony vaping. Releasing giant clouds of vapor. I'm all for vaping, but I imagine that the people who take it to the limits are gonna find out eventually that it can be unhealthy too (as anything done in excess)
- TeMPOraL 11y agoPersonally I'd be scared shitless if I were to vape stuff like what you're describing. I'm genuinly curious, what are they vaping and why they think it is a good idea?
- wdmeldon 11y agoThe vapor isn't what you should be worried about. It's called "Cloud Chasing" and most of the hardcore of them have to build their own hardware to get to these insane levels. And sometimes they screw up. This leads to battery explosions that have seriously hurt people.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoI was worried about this part of Lewton's comment: > And when I smelled it I thought "Someone's really hitting that BBQ!" This implies that there is some serious crap in the vapor, so that you can smell it from the distance (and it smells like BBQ).
- madaxe_again 11y agoI use a kanga subtank mini on a kbox mini - and mostly liquids from BordO2, a French producer of some repute. This isn't some pile of parts I scraped together in which I'm smoking shale oil... I'm one of the "thick clouds" crowd - because my first attempt to switch from "traditional" cigarettes failed because the feel of smoking was missing. I'm now on nicotine-free oils, and plan on stopping outright over the next few months, as the physiological need is now beaten - just the psychological "what to do with my hands" end of things to treat. As to why I think it's a good idea - don't know if I do, but I think it's a better idea than smoking. I'm no longer constantly phlegmatic, I don't wake up in the morning out of breath, I can taste things again, I've stopped wheezing. Those all seem like good things to me. Finally, I've never seen someone going "cough cough urgh" at a fog machine at an event or disco - and it's the same damned stuff.
- dsr_ 11y ago
- nr152522 11y agoDoes anyone know if the vapor, once exhaled, can carry bacteria/viruses?
- madaxe_again 11y agoWell, every breath you exhale does, so odds are, yes.
- DanBC 11y agobut there might be an anti-microbial action to the nicotine or flavourings.
- madaxe_again 11y agoTrue - nicotine is anti-microbial, that's kinda why plants make it - but flavourings can probably go either way - although essential oils tend to be a pretty hostile place for any microbe.
- Domenic_S 11y agoPropylene Glycol - the base of many e-juices - is sometimes vaporized in hospitals to prevent airborne infections. http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476%2842%2980046-3/abstract http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476%2842%2980046-3/abstr...
- twobits 11y ago"In my experience, walking twenty paces behind a vaper vaping is even more unpleasant than walking four paces behind a cigarette smoker smoking." That's psychological issue of yours. You think that, so you "feel" that.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoSo let's put this fair - e-cigarette smoke is basically the same stuff we've been using for ages as the stage smoke. If you aren't afraid of going to a concert, you shouldn't be afraid of passive e-cig smoking either.
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoI choose to go to a concert. Choice is a very very significant thing here. Choice is the difference between donation and theft.
- rimantas 11y agoAlso, you don't go to a concert every day, multiple times.
- tripzilch 11y agoThat argument only makes sense if you had a relatively precise idea (up to a factor of 3-5 at least) of how many concerts equate to inhaling second-hand e-cig exhaust, health-wise. Which you don't, at all.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoTrue, but what I wanted to focus on with this example is that this stuff is mostly harmless - as evidenced by the fact you can deploy it on concerts.
- metalliqaz 11y agoI'm less concerned with the safety of second-hand vapor than the offensive odor. It has been so nice these past few years to be able to go to bars and restaurants and not come back with my entire wardrobe reeking. I don't want to give that up.
- ptaipale 11y agoI think that perfumes are a more relevant problem than e-cigs.
- mistermann 11y ago> Well it isn't harmless You do not know this, no one does. At most, there is some evidence that some flavors might possibly be harmful - at what concentrations and for what duration of exposure, no one knows.
- at-fates-hands 11y agoThis is the same argument I heard when people started making "synthetic weed" and said its totally harmless: Some comments from a 2007 article about Salvia: http://host.madison.com/news/opinion/mailbag/salvia-harmless-recreation-or-a-dangerous-drug/article_0c2fdb17-c610-595b-aaa0-09c7019e7ac1.html http://host.madison.com/news/opinion/mailbag/salvia-harmless... Before the drug crusaders wheel out the usual hysterical lies in their attempts to outlaw salvia divinorum, it is worthwhile to notice that no serious problems have been associated with salvia divinorum to date. There are no deaths, no desperate addictions and no robberies, assaults or murders connected to salvia. here is an herb whose effects last a matter of minutes. It doesn't produce a rush or euphoria. It's not addictive, and it makes users feel anti-social, so it's hardly going to become a fad among teenagers (unless, of course, you heighten its intrigue by making it illegal). So why are legislators considering banning this plant? Do we even need reasons anymore to be reactionary and ban everything we don't understand? Sound familiar?
- throw_away 11y agoSalvia and synthetic weed are two completely different substances.
- jwr 11y agoOh, come on. Seriously? Just google "e-cigarette smoke harmful" and click on any of the results. Here's a random sample: "Second-hand smoke from electronic cigarettes may be less harmful than their tobacco-laden cousins, but they still release toxins into the air, according to a new study. For the study, published in the Journal of Environmental Science, Processes and Impacts, researchers at the University of Southern California analyzed second-hand smoke from e-cigarettes and found an overall 10-fold decrease in exposure to harmful particles compared to traditional cigarette smoke. However, they did find a significant increase in exposure to some harmful metals coming from e-cigarette smoke. Second-hand smoke from e-cigarettes also yielded exposure to almost no polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons — cancer-causing compounds known as organic carcinogens — that are released into the air as tobacco cigarettes burn. But despite having less harmful organic compounds and an overall decrease in toxic metal emissions, e-cigarette smoke did contain chromium and nickel at levels four times higher than tobacco cigarettes. Lead and zinc were also found in the smoke, but they occurred at levels lower than regular cigarettes."
- unfamiliar 11y agoNothing is harmless. To have a conversation that isn't just scare mongering and opinion pushing you have to actually mention risk factors. From everything I've read, e-cigs are so almost harmless that it doesn't even bear mentioning. Studies like this show that e-cigs are harmful on about the same level as eating too much kale is harmful. People that fixate on the small but technically true fact that it is "harmful" are doing much more harm to people's health than e-cigs, because each comment to that effect potentially dissuades another smoker from making the switch.
- ptaipale 11y agoI wonder why you're downvoted, but I fearlessly agree: comments about "it is harmful, as this study can reveal" are often grossly exaggerating risks that are extremely minimal and not relevant at all for the typical use case. Of course, everything can be taken to extremes. Even drinking water can kill you, after all, and the dose is probably easier to get than in e-cigs.
- ArkyBeagle 11y agoNothing is harmless. It's all shades of grey. And you won't be able to smoke everywhere. That ship has sailed. "Smoking everywhere" didn't bother people until others suggested it should. Its just interesting...