4 ms·

I really question where you are getting your numbers they don't really make sense to me. Second, I will point out that the market for lawyers is completely ove

by lotu 11y ago

I really question where you are getting your numbers they don't really make sense to me. Second, I will point out that the market for lawyers is completely oversaturated, so if you go to law school unless you went to a top ten law school you may end up working at Starbucks (slight exageration). As far as medicine their is very clear demand but the costs to get their are very high. You have an extra $100K, for 4 years of med school and 3 of residency where you act like a Doctor but get paid shit. You don't start making money until you are 30, while in CS you can be making big buck at 21. Physical Sciences get paid even worse. You cannot make a argument that women are just taking the more optimal career path and leaving men to do what is left over.

pc86 11y ago
I think the argument is that "big bucks" in CS is relative and the ceiling is much higher in medicine specifically (and to a certain extent law but you're 100% correct about the oversaturation). Outside of San Francisco and (maybe) NYC, "big bucks" for a programmer with no managerial responsibilities is probably somewhere in the $120-180k range. In my very low cost of living area, it's in the $100-120k range. You just cannot get a job for more than $9-10k/mo in the area doing development. Team leads/tech leads are similarly priced, and it's not until you're managing multiple teams that you're in the area of $150k. And yes a new doctor will be 5-6 years older and make less than a new programmer. But "big bucks" for a physician is measured in the hundreds of thousands. Anesthesiology tops $430k a year in median salary.[2] It's absolutely a harder, more demanding job, and it starts out much less forgiving. But the ladder extends much, much further and depending on specialty it's hard not to end up solidly upper class regardless of geographic area or cost of living. The 2012 median annual wage for "Computer programmers" is $72k[0] The 2012 median annual wage for a lawyer is $114k, with an arguably much more difficult job market[1], but is incredibly close to the top 10% of computer programmers (which is $118k). The 2012 median annual wage for a physicians is above the maximum reported value of $187,200[2] [0] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm#tab-5 http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/c... [1] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/legal/lawyers.htm#tab-5 http://www.bls.gov/ooh/legal/lawyers.htm#tab-5 [2] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5 http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.ht...
- cookiecaper 11y ago
  It's about the entire cost. If the average wage for a programmer is 72k, but they can make that for 10 years while the future-doctor is living off student loans, that's worth something; at the end of the 10 year training period for the physician, they've made -200k while the programmer has made +720k. If the physician comes out of school and makes the median wage of 187k, at year 20 the programmer will have grossed 1.4 million while the physician has grossed 1.8 million, but the physician also has had to pay down 200k student debt at a rough estimate of a 6% total interest rate (total: 266k), making his 10-year career take home only about 220k more than the programmer. It's definitely true that doctors make more money over the long run, but if by year 20 (~age 40), the difference is only about 2 years' extra salary, a lot of people would say it's not worth the stress.
  - kamaal 11y ago
    Plus if you are smart enough to make good investment decisions while you are young, as a programmer you are pretty much set to retire by the time doctors start making money.
    - ryandrake 11y ago
      LOL, only if by "investment decisions" you mean "luck into a 1 out of 1000 unicorn startup". I don't know a single programmer retired in their 30s who did it with salary and retail investing.
      - pc86 11y ago
        I think what they mean is: 1. If you are a programmer who can make an above-average salary immediate upon graduating; and 2. If you are able to save an above average amount of that salary; and 3. If you are exceptionally good at traditional investment decisions (stock picking) such that you can consistently beat the market; and 4. You actually decide to use the money from #2 for #3 Then it's possible to retire after a sub-20 year career. In the same sense that it's possible to win the lottery multiple times. Each of the first three points are by definition exceedingly rare as single traits of any one person, let alone all three together.

by lotu 11y ago

pc86 11y ago

I think the argument is that "big bucks" in CS is relative and the ceiling is much higher in medicine specifically (and to a certain extent law but you're 100% correct about the oversaturation). Outside of San Francisco and (maybe) NYC, "big bucks" for a programmer with no managerial responsibilities is probably somewhere in the $120-180k range. In my very low cost of living area, it's in the $100-120k range. You just cannot get a job for more than $9-10k/mo in the area doing development. Team leads/tech leads are similarly priced, and it's not until you're managing multiple teams that you're in the area of $150k. And yes a new doctor will be 5-6 years older and make less than a new programmer. But "big bucks" for a physician is measured in the hundreds of thousands. Anesthesiology tops $430k a year in median salary.[2] It's absolutely a harder, more demanding job, and it starts out much less forgiving. But the ladder extends much, much further and depending on specialty it's hard not to end up solidly upper class regardless of geographic area or cost of living. The 2012 median annual wage for "Computer programmers" is $72k[0] The 2012 median annual wage for a lawyer is $114k, with an arguably much more difficult job market[1], but is incredibly close to the top 10% of computer programmers (which is $118k). The 2012 median annual wage for a physicians is above the maximum reported value of $187,200[2] [0] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm#tab-5 http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/c... [1] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/legal/lawyers.htm#tab-5 http://www.bls.gov/ooh/legal/lawyers.htm#tab-5 [2] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm#tab-5 http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.ht...

cookiecaper 11y ago
It's about the entire cost. If the average wage for a programmer is 72k, but they can make that for 10 years while the future-doctor is living off student loans, that's worth something; at the end of the 10 year training period for the physician, they've made -200k while the programmer has made +720k. If the physician comes out of school and makes the median wage of 187k, at year 20 the programmer will have grossed 1.4 million while the physician has grossed 1.8 million, but the physician also has had to pay down 200k student debt at a rough estimate of a 6% total interest rate (total: 266k), making his 10-year career take home only about 220k more than the programmer. It's definitely true that doctors make more money over the long run, but if by year 20 (~age 40), the difference is only about 2 years' extra salary, a lot of people would say it's not worth the stress.
- kamaal 11y ago
  Plus if you are smart enough to make good investment decisions while you are young, as a programmer you are pretty much set to retire by the time doctors start making money.
  - ryandrake 11y ago
    LOL, only if by "investment decisions" you mean "luck into a 1 out of 1000 unicorn startup". I don't know a single programmer retired in their 30s who did it with salary and retail investing.
    - pc86 11y ago
      I think what they mean is: 1. If you are a programmer who can make an above-average salary immediate upon graduating; and 2. If you are able to save an above average amount of that salary; and 3. If you are exceptionally good at traditional investment decisions (stock picking) such that you can consistently beat the market; and 4. You actually decide to use the money from #2 for #3 Then it's possible to retire after a sub-20 year career. In the same sense that it's possible to win the lottery multiple times. Each of the first three points are by definition exceedingly rare as single traits of any one person, let alone all three together.