8 ms·

‘No-drill’ techniques can treat tooth decay just as well, study finds

139 points by e15ctr0n 11y ago

pan69 11y ago
I'm waiting for the day they can simply grow new teeth for you in a petrie dish and pop 'm back in your mouth.
- rocky1138 11y ago
  That makes two. My teeth are terrible. When I was a kid and people would warn me about sugar I would always argue that in the future we'd just be able to replace our teeth. Any day now...
  - oxide 11y ago
    I'm starting to think my bad teeth are going to kill me before stem cells get around to regrowing them for me.
- rzzzt 11y ago
  I'd rather they grew them in vivo. Implanting a fully functioning tooth would still be a difficult operation.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    Adults occasionally grow a third set of teeth. Maybe it will someday be possible to trigger a person to grow a new set of teeth.
maxmcd 11y ago
better link: http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2015/12/07/_no-drill_-dentistry-stops-tooth-decay---new-research.html http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2015/12/07/_no-drill_... Was trying to get more specific details about the alternate treatment, but information seems limited to: - Application of high concentration fluoride varnish by dentists to the sites of early decay - Attention to home tooth brushing skills - Restriction of between-meal snacks and beverages containing added sugar - Risk-specific monitoring.
- hammock 11y ago
  Basically, if caught early, your teeth can remineralize themselves if you provide the right conditions.
  - dynomight 11y ago
    I have hope that this is true. So much of the treatment and prevention is focused on protecting the surface of the teeth which is certainly a major consideration. However, there are health conditions that seem to effect the teeth and enamel that are not born from a tooth problem. A symptom of celiac is holes in the enamel. I don't know if these heal though after the diet is adjusted for celiac. Bones can heal so it seems to follow (to me anyway) that perhaps teeth can heal too. Again, I hope this is true. I agree that conditions would have to be right in order for it to happen. There are 'those people' that never get cavities. Would be interesting to know what's going on there.
  - dualogy 11y ago
    Absolutely. Here's a lifehack for when a small new cavity that doesn't even hurt (much, yet) is discovered --- for some 2-3 months: - cut out all sugar to the best of your ability, - cut way down on mineral leeches such as phytates, lectins, gluten - consume plenty of meat, grassfed butter and liver -- all 3 matter here A neat easy to follow little protocol for remineralization and overall tooth (and bone) hardening. In a way it's not as convenient as getting a drill for 20 minutes and heading back to the office donut party or the birthday cakes your friends were sharing. It really is about priorities here. Our bodies are in no way incapable of splendid regeneration at any age, the problem? They take a lot of time, and require "the right building blocks", which really are a bit tricky to find out about, and lastly modern diet interferes severely. Yes, somehow the preformed animal Vitamin A from liver does the trick and so does preformed animal Vitamin K2 from grassfed butter where synthetic formulations or plant-sourced supplements don't seem to. Plus the completely-absorbed and readily-utilizable minerals and amino acids from your meat. Don't blame the messenger ;)
    - abecedarius 11y ago
brandon272 11y ago
I have always hoped for big advancements in dental care and the ability to improve teeth. I have a lot of anxiety-inducing cosmetic issues with my teeth but the cost to get anything done about it is incredibly prohibitive and not covered by insurance.
- x0x0 11y ago
  If it's the price of orthodontia, it may be cheaper than you think. Ask two for a price. They almost always offer a payment plan, and if you can, demand at least a 10-20% discount for a full payment in cash up front.
phkahler 11y ago
I keep thinking there should be a way to plug the cavity with something that can be absorbed by the tooth and assimilated into it (like happens with baby teeth). Then cover it up with a cap that can be later removed. Gotta find a way to regrow the enamel under that cap too. Is there some reason teeth can't regrow when damaged?
- dpark 11y ago
  > absorbed by the tooth and assimilated into it (like happens with baby teeth) I'm confused. What happens with baby teeth? > Then cover it up with a cap that can be later removed. And come back in a few days later when the tooth and the one it meets hurt unbearably. You can't really put a cap on a tooth without grinding away a bunch of enamel first. The cap will make the tooth thicker and cause it to take all the pressure when biting. I do wish our dental treatments didn't seem so middle ages, though. Drill a hole and fill it with epoxy. :\ That sounds like an appropriate way to fix a boat, not living tissue.
  - phkahler 11y ago
    >> I'm confused. What happens with baby teeth? The roots are used as material for the permanent tooth under it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_resorption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_resorption
    - dpark 11y ago
      Unless I'm missing something, the baby tooth roots aren't really absorbed into the new tooth. The body absorbs the baby roots, but they aren't directly incorporated into the adult teeth. Rather the pressure from the adult teeth causes the baby roots to be absorbed. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, though.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  > Is there some reason teeth can't regrow when damaged? Same reason hair or fingernails can't - no cells in the exposed area. Plus, evolutionarily we're a lot less prone to tooth damage than many other animals. Without all the refined sugars modern humans eat, they've generally been quite serviceable throughout the reproductive years.
suncanon 11y ago
This title is a little bit misleading, because a large part of the solution is having a healthier and less sugary diet consistently for 4-8 years. If patients could do that, they likely wouldn't have cavities in the first place. It does seem like there is a general movement away from drilling happening, though, which is good! This approach looks more promising to me: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/16/fillings-dentists-tooth-decay-treatment http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/16/fillings-dent...
funkyy 11y ago
Sometimes I think it would be just nice to get all teeth removed and get brand new proper ones within a days worth visit. Would make things much easier.
- RankingMember 11y ago
  I've thought about this as some kind of future tech thing, wherein instead of braces, everyone just gets a full set of perfect teeth, possibly even just one long gap-less tooth for top and bottom with a standard set of surfaces. That way, no more flossing and much less chance of getting food stuck in places and causing problems.
  - saidajigumi 11y ago
    And here's where tech goes boink. Teeth are living things, and the teeth, gums, and jaw are an integrated living system, not just interchangeable machine parts. The jaw in particular interacts with the teeth in a way that maintains bone density and health.[1] Likewise, modern implants are a huge improvement over prior tech (e.g. bridges), esp. for bone loss, but still aren't a 100% tooth analogue. [1] http://www.texasdentureclinic.com/blog/2013/12/06/bone-loss-with-dentures-137374 http://www.texasdentureclinic.com/blog/2013/12/06/bone-loss-...
    - RankingMember 11y ago
      Thanks, that's very interesting. I think it's very easy to look at something and say "oh, well we could make this better!" without fully understanding the implications.
    - Gracana 11y ago
      My friend was talking about this recently. He is trying to put together the money to get a new tooth fitted, and mentioned that there is talk of having insurance cover replacement teeth for young people due to the fact that not having teeth can severely weaken the jaw over the course of your life. Not such a big deal when you're 80 and your teeth are falling out, but when you're 25 it has potential to become a big problem.
wott 11y ago
What I never understood is why in these days we are not able to have a product that would be spread on the teeth (let's say a yearly application) to protect them from most of the major aggressions. Each time I had a tooth "cured" (i.e. drilled), this "cure" weakened the structure of the tooth so much that it broke with a period of 6 to 24 months. And once the inside was removed with drilling and the outside has broken, what's left? Nothing: goodbye tooth, hello hole. I am pretty sure that they would have lasted longer if they had not been cured (supposing I could stand the occasional pain, but in half of the cases, pain was not even about to start, a tiny decay was just detected by visual inspection). But now, I have to plan to start eating more soup soon.
- saidajigumi 11y ago
  > Each time I had a tooth "cured" (i.e. drilled), this "cure" weakened the structure of the tooth so much that it broke with a period of 6 to 24 months. The article's points aside, there is something seriously wrong here. For contrast, my newest filling is over fifteen years old and all are still going strong. Drilling is still highly problematic, but shouldn't be directly responsible for your teeth crumbling in such a short time frame. Various other conditions can weaken teeth and make them more susceptible to damage.
- grmarcil 11y ago
  > What I never understood is why in these days we are not able to have a product that would be spread on the teeth (let's say a yearly application) to protect them from most of the major aggressions. If I understand what you're talking about, this is already a thing, and not particularly new either. Lasts much longer than a year too. http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/sealants http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/sealants
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    Fascinating; how come I've never heard of this? It seems like the sort of thing dentists would advertise.
    - 11y ago
theworstshill 11y ago
Hopefully smart people working in this area can learn to regrow them from stem cells, so once a tooth cannot be repaired any longer, it can be popped out and a new can grow in your gum in its place.
adam930 11y ago
http://www.credentis.com/en/innovation/ http://www.credentis.com/en/innovation/ This is what everyone here seems to be after. A toothpaste with this technology came out this July. But it's only sold in Switzerland. For background: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/008256.html http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/008256.html
aaron695 11y ago
Some dentists comment on this in reddit (It's old news in the dental world) https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vsrgo/no_drill_dentistry_shows_fillings_arent_needed_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vsrgo/no_drill_de... It does pose an interesting question, how do I know my dentist is up to date.

139 points by e15ctr0n 11y ago

pan69 11y ago

I'm waiting for the day they can simply grow new teeth for you in a petrie dish and pop 'm back in your mouth.

rocky1138 11y ago
That makes two. My teeth are terrible. When I was a kid and people would warn me about sugar I would always argue that in the future we'd just be able to replace our teeth. Any day now...
- oxide 11y ago
  I'm starting to think my bad teeth are going to kill me before stem cells get around to regrowing them for me.
rzzzt 11y ago
I'd rather they grew them in vivo. Implanting a fully functioning tooth would still be a difficult operation.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  Adults occasionally grow a third set of teeth. Maybe it will someday be possible to trigger a person to grow a new set of teeth.

maxmcd 11y ago

better link: http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2015/12/07/_no-drill_-dentistry-stops-tooth-decay---new-research.html http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2015/12/07/_no-drill_... Was trying to get more specific details about the alternate treatment, but information seems limited to: - Application of high concentration fluoride varnish by dentists to the sites of early decay - Attention to home tooth brushing skills - Restriction of between-meal snacks and beverages containing added sugar - Risk-specific monitoring.

hammock 11y ago
Basically, if caught early, your teeth can remineralize themselves if you provide the right conditions.
- dynomight 11y ago
  I have hope that this is true. So much of the treatment and prevention is focused on protecting the surface of the teeth which is certainly a major consideration. However, there are health conditions that seem to effect the teeth and enamel that are not born from a tooth problem. A symptom of celiac is holes in the enamel. I don't know if these heal though after the diet is adjusted for celiac. Bones can heal so it seems to follow (to me anyway) that perhaps teeth can heal too. Again, I hope this is true. I agree that conditions would have to be right in order for it to happen. There are 'those people' that never get cavities. Would be interesting to know what's going on there.
- dualogy 11y ago
  Absolutely. Here's a lifehack for when a small new cavity that doesn't even hurt (much, yet) is discovered --- for some 2-3 months: - cut out all sugar to the best of your ability, - cut way down on mineral leeches such as phytates, lectins, gluten - consume plenty of meat, grassfed butter and liver -- all 3 matter here A neat easy to follow little protocol for remineralization and overall tooth (and bone) hardening. In a way it's not as convenient as getting a drill for 20 minutes and heading back to the office donut party or the birthday cakes your friends were sharing. It really is about priorities here. Our bodies are in no way incapable of splendid regeneration at any age, the problem? They take a lot of time, and require "the right building blocks", which really are a bit tricky to find out about, and lastly modern diet interferes severely. Yes, somehow the preformed animal Vitamin A from liver does the trick and so does preformed animal Vitamin K2 from grassfed butter where synthetic formulations or plant-sourced supplements don't seem to. Plus the completely-absorbed and readily-utilizable minerals and amino acids from your meat. Don't blame the messenger ;)
  - abecedarius 11y ago

brandon272 11y ago

I have always hoped for big advancements in dental care and the ability to improve teeth. I have a lot of anxiety-inducing cosmetic issues with my teeth but the cost to get anything done about it is incredibly prohibitive and not covered by insurance.

x0x0 11y ago
If it's the price of orthodontia, it may be cheaper than you think. Ask two for a price. They almost always offer a payment plan, and if you can, demand at least a 10-20% discount for a full payment in cash up front.

phkahler 11y ago

I keep thinking there should be a way to plug the cavity with something that can be absorbed by the tooth and assimilated into it (like happens with baby teeth). Then cover it up with a cap that can be later removed. Gotta find a way to regrow the enamel under that cap too. Is there some reason teeth can't regrow when damaged?

dpark 11y ago
> absorbed by the tooth and assimilated into it (like happens with baby teeth) I'm confused. What happens with baby teeth? > Then cover it up with a cap that can be later removed. And come back in a few days later when the tooth and the one it meets hurt unbearably. You can't really put a cap on a tooth without grinding away a bunch of enamel first. The cap will make the tooth thicker and cause it to take all the pressure when biting. I do wish our dental treatments didn't seem so middle ages, though. Drill a hole and fill it with epoxy. :\ That sounds like an appropriate way to fix a boat, not living tissue.
- phkahler 11y ago
  >> I'm confused. What happens with baby teeth? The roots are used as material for the permanent tooth under it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_resorption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_resorption
  - dpark 11y ago
    Unless I'm missing something, the baby tooth roots aren't really absorbed into the new tooth. The body absorbs the baby roots, but they aren't directly incorporated into the adult teeth. Rather the pressure from the adult teeth causes the baby roots to be absorbed. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, though.
ceejayoz 11y ago
> Is there some reason teeth can't regrow when damaged? Same reason hair or fingernails can't - no cells in the exposed area. Plus, evolutionarily we're a lot less prone to tooth damage than many other animals. Without all the refined sugars modern humans eat, they've generally been quite serviceable throughout the reproductive years.

suncanon 11y ago

This title is a little bit misleading, because a large part of the solution is having a healthier and less sugary diet consistently for 4-8 years. If patients could do that, they likely wouldn't have cavities in the first place. It does seem like there is a general movement away from drilling happening, though, which is good! This approach looks more promising to me: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/16/fillings-dentists-tooth-decay-treatment http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/16/fillings-dent...

funkyy 11y ago

Sometimes I think it would be just nice to get all teeth removed and get brand new proper ones within a days worth visit. Would make things much easier.

RankingMember 11y ago
I've thought about this as some kind of future tech thing, wherein instead of braces, everyone just gets a full set of perfect teeth, possibly even just one long gap-less tooth for top and bottom with a standard set of surfaces. That way, no more flossing and much less chance of getting food stuck in places and causing problems.
- saidajigumi 11y ago
  And here's where tech goes boink. Teeth are living things, and the teeth, gums, and jaw are an integrated living system, not just interchangeable machine parts. The jaw in particular interacts with the teeth in a way that maintains bone density and health.[1] Likewise, modern implants are a huge improvement over prior tech (e.g. bridges), esp. for bone loss, but still aren't a 100% tooth analogue. [1] http://www.texasdentureclinic.com/blog/2013/12/06/bone-loss-with-dentures-137374 http://www.texasdentureclinic.com/blog/2013/12/06/bone-loss-...
  - RankingMember 11y ago
    Thanks, that's very interesting. I think it's very easy to look at something and say "oh, well we could make this better!" without fully understanding the implications.
  - Gracana 11y ago
    My friend was talking about this recently. He is trying to put together the money to get a new tooth fitted, and mentioned that there is talk of having insurance cover replacement teeth for young people due to the fact that not having teeth can severely weaken the jaw over the course of your life. Not such a big deal when you're 80 and your teeth are falling out, but when you're 25 it has potential to become a big problem.

wott 11y ago

What I never understood is why in these days we are not able to have a product that would be spread on the teeth (let's say a yearly application) to protect them from most of the major aggressions. Each time I had a tooth "cured" (i.e. drilled), this "cure" weakened the structure of the tooth so much that it broke with a period of 6 to 24 months. And once the inside was removed with drilling and the outside has broken, what's left? Nothing: goodbye tooth, hello hole. I am pretty sure that they would have lasted longer if they had not been cured (supposing I could stand the occasional pain, but in half of the cases, pain was not even about to start, a tiny decay was just detected by visual inspection). But now, I have to plan to start eating more soup soon.

saidajigumi 11y ago
> Each time I had a tooth "cured" (i.e. drilled), this "cure" weakened the structure of the tooth so much that it broke with a period of 6 to 24 months. The article's points aside, there is something seriously wrong here. For contrast, my newest filling is over fifteen years old and all are still going strong. Drilling is still highly problematic, but shouldn't be directly responsible for your teeth crumbling in such a short time frame. Various other conditions can weaken teeth and make them more susceptible to damage.
grmarcil 11y ago
> What I never understood is why in these days we are not able to have a product that would be spread on the teeth (let's say a yearly application) to protect them from most of the major aggressions. If I understand what you're talking about, this is already a thing, and not particularly new either. Lasts much longer than a year too. http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/sealants http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/sealants
- scrollaway 11y ago
  Fascinating; how come I've never heard of this? It seems like the sort of thing dentists would advertise.
  - 11y ago

theworstshill 11y ago

Hopefully smart people working in this area can learn to regrow them from stem cells, so once a tooth cannot be repaired any longer, it can be popped out and a new can grow in your gum in its place.

adam930 11y ago

http://www.credentis.com/en/innovation/ http://www.credentis.com/en/innovation/ This is what everyone here seems to be after. A toothpaste with this technology came out this July. But it's only sold in Switzerland. For background: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/008256.html http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/008256.html

aaron695 11y ago

Some dentists comment on this in reddit (It's old news in the dental world) https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vsrgo/no_drill_dentistry_shows_fillings_arent_needed_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vsrgo/no_drill_de... It does pose an interesting question, how do I know my dentist is up to date.