25 ms·

Chemical flavorings found in e-cigarettes linked to lung disease

119 points by kevindeasis 11y ago

binarymax 11y ago
Nicotine users just can't catch a break. Based on the real subject of the article, diacetyl, I'm surprised the chemical has not been regulated by now. Here is the federal register snippet [0] §184.1278 Diacetyl. (a) Diacetyl (C4H6O2, CAS Reg. No. 431-03-8) is a clear yellow to yellowish green liquid with a strong pungent odor. It is also known as 2,3-butanedione and is chemically synthesized from methyl ethyl ketone. It is miscible in water, glycerin, alcohol, and ether, and in very dilute water solution, it has a typical buttery odor and flavor. (b) The ingredient meets the specifications of the Food Chemicals Codex, 3d Ed. (1981), p. 368, which is incorporated by reference. Copies are available from the National Academy Press, 2101 Constitution Ave. NW., Washington, DC 20418, or available for inspection at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go to: http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_regulations/ibr_locations.html http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_reg.... (c) In accordance with §184.1(b)(1), the ingredient is used in food with no limitation other than current good manufacturing practice. The affirmation of this ingredient as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) as a direct human food ingredient is based upon the following current good manufacturing practice conditions of use: (1) The ingredient is used as a flavoring agent and adjuvant as defined in §170.3(o)(12) of this chapter. (2) The ingredient is used in food at levels not to exceed current good manufacturing practice. (d) Prior sanctions for this ingredient different from the uses established in this section do not exist or have been waived. [48 FR 51907, Nov. 15, 1983] [0] http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5&node=21:3.0.1.1.14#se21.3.184_11278 http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5&node=21:3.0.1....
- mrob 11y ago
  It's not nicotine users specifically at risk here, because unflavored nicotine liquids are available, as well as flavored zero-nicotine liquids. Flavorings seem like an unnecessary risk to me -- the dangers of diacetyl have been known for several years so it doesn't surprise me that other flavorings can also damage lungs. None of them have anywhere close to the level of safety research as the nicotine or the carrier liquids (propylene glycol or glycerol). Even before this research the risk:benefit ratio for flavorings looked very dubious.
- notlisted 11y ago
  I'm not clear if you are being sarcastic, but note the GRAS (generally recognized as safe), for ingestion at least...
  - mrob 11y ago
    If you ever stand near a typical vaper, you'll notice they use very high concentrations of flavoring. Any food with this much flavoring would probably be considered inedible. I think very strong flavoring is popular to overcome desensitization caused by frequent use.
  - binarymax 11y ago
    I am not being sarcastic. That entry hasn't changed in the FR since 1983. "Generally recognized as safe" is out of date and the chemical needs another regulatory review and update.
    - daveguy 11y ago
      FR is a log of all regulations and you are referencing an old GRAS notification. GRAS is valid and up to date FOR INGESTION ONLY. Here is the most current information on GRAS food additives (not pharma additives) from the FDA: http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/ http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/ Here is the inactive ingredients database for approved pharmaceutical additives which depends on route of administration: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm
  - daveguy 11y ago
    GRAS is a food additive designation and does apply ONLY to ingestion. The pharmacology of an inhaled substance can be completely different than that of an ingested one. The same goes for intravenous, topical and subcutaneous as well. Just because something is safe for one method of delivery does not mean it is safe for another. GRAS is applicable and continually updated regarding ingestion, but it does NOT apply to inhalation. Edit: side note, the database of additives approved in pharmaceutical products is specific to route of delivery and ,for the US, can be found in the FDA's inactive ingredients database: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm
notlisted 11y ago
In some e-cigarette flavors. Look at the actual study [1] and you'll see the dangers are mainly limited to some buttery/fruity/nutty flavors. The fact that Diacetyl occurs at much higher concentrations in regular cigarettes goes unmentioned. 'Popcorn lung' disease occurred with workers who were exposed to enough Diacetyl vapor in a day as an e-cig 'smoker' would be in a month. Finally, I'll leave the conclusion of the UK Department of Health [2] : "E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco estimates landmark review" As indicated in the second link, the scaremongering of studies such as this one mislead smokers into thinking that e-cigarettes are about as dangerous as regular ones. The dangers are not equivalent, by a long shot. Every smoker that switches to e-cigs, as I did 3 years ago after a 20 year habit and three failed attempts to quit, is much better off. Haven't smoked a 'real' one since. I know at least 50 people with the same experience (anecdotal, I know, but still...). [1] http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/advpub/2015/12/ehp.1510185.acco.pdf http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/advpub/2015/12/e... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-le...
- joosters 11y ago
  The study does show that some tobacco flavors (which are often described as unflavored) contained diacetyl too, albeit in smaller concentrations.
  - notlisted 11y ago
    Noted. Added the word "mainly". I'm not claiming that Diacetyl should be in e-cigarettes to begin with, but that the headline and recommendations of the need to be viewed with additional scrutiny and in context. As with all unhealthy components dosage matters and risks should be presented accordingly. PS There have been other studies into Diacetyl in e-cigarettes in the past. This sourced article contains a few more pointers http://blog.mtbakervapor.com/the-truth-about-diacetyl/ http://blog.mtbakervapor.com/the-truth-about-diacetyl/
    - joosters 11y ago
noxToken 11y ago
Quoting directly from Reddit [1]: >Oh boy, time to crosspost for information's sake. >Even diactyl containing e-juice still contains 100x less diacetyl than traditional cigarettes. [Citation: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tox.20153/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tox.20153/pdf ] And no smoker to date has ever gotten "Popcorn Lung" (Named because it occurs years after dumping pure uncut diactyl into vats and bins when making cheapo microwave popcorn in the factories.) >And despite all that- It's still largely the other factors and chemicals and tar and actual combustion that damages your lungs when smoking is involved. Not diacetyl specifically. >Even 100x the amount of diacetyl as e-juice is apparently not enough to cause the "Popcorn Lung" issue related to the compound specifically. So why would 100x less than the amount that does not cause it suddenly start to cause it? Not that it's 100 percent safe (As mentioned by a replier as well- So I have appended my post some for accuracy and fairness.) Just that it's not the immediate or unavoidable threat it's being presented as. >And in the span of 7+ years even in the heaviest vape users no one has (yet, mind. For the sake of fairness and caution.) reported any major health issues tied to vaping or the compounds contained in e-juice. If the 75ml a day heavy diactyl juice user doesn't get popcorn lung then I highly doubt popcorn lung is a problem to watch for regarding it. >Also there are many many e-juices available without diactyl. So even if it was an issue you can actively avoid it. And most manufacturers have discontinued it's use or clearely state if their juices are diacetyl free so the risk factors that are purely tied to diacetyl are avoidable and preventable. >As far as being paranoid about what's put in it- This is purely my opinion but, I think that is razorblades in your kid's halloween candy or "Shadey people handing out drugs for free/Lacing your kid's flintstones vitamins with PCP" levels of unfounded overconcern. >Caution is important- But so is research and fact checking. >Edit: To append this to- I am not defending the use or previous use of the substance, merely dispelling the immediate "Popcorn Lung" panic around it. I personally don't use e-juice containing it for the sake of risk reduction in general as I like to limit as many potential factors as possible in general. And there are hundreds- if not thousands of brands and types which do not contain diacetyl to choose from which I would recommend. >I am also not claiming vaping is 100 percent safe- Just that this instance is an avoidable factor and has been for a while. >Personal safety and active research should always be practiced in all facets of life. [1] https://np.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vxbzo/chemical_flavorings_found_in_ecigarettes_linked/cxrq6ro https://np.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vxbzo/chemical_fla... Edit: For the record, that is not my Reddit post. I found it to be very informative, so I thought I'd share it with the HN community. Please respect Reddit's no brigading policy - for both upvoting and downvoting posts.
gabemart 11y ago
Additional comments on post from 14 hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10700914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10700914
sneak 11y ago
It is important to note that the levels of these chemicals in the vapor from vaporizers is 50-100x lower than found in traditional, "analog" cigarettes.
- m_eiman 11y ago
  Why is that important? What might be important is whether the level of chemicals is high enough to pose a risk, not if something else is worse.
  - kristofferR 11y ago
    Because a lot of people are going to keep smoking cigarettes because ecigs "Cause lung cancer too".
  - notlisted 11y ago
    I would say this context is important to weigh the dangers of analog vs digital. The 'popcorn lung' issue doesn't present itself with smokers of analog cigarettes, with higher concentrations of the same bad stuff, so why would anyone mention it in the context of digital cigarettes, unless it's scientific click-bait prepared for unscientific journalists looking for an article.
  - frozenport 11y ago
    Not clear why you are being downvoted. Many people start smoking with e-cigs. These are people who otherwise wouldn't smoke.
    - mistermann 11y ago
      > Many people start smoking with e-cigs Are you saying: Nothing > ecigs > regular cigarettes? If so, could you provide a citation for that claim?
      - e1ven 11y ago
        I don't smoke - I never have. I've personally considered taking up ecigs on several occasions. I haven't done so because the ingredients in the fluid flavorings are so oddly unregulated - You end up with weird things which really aren't safe to be heated and inhaled. If I had confidence that there was sufficient oversight, such that they were only moderately dangerous, not "close our eyes, and hope for the best", I'd likely start using the devices.
EliRivers 11y ago
Life imitates art :) http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/put-cancer-in-e-cigarettes-say-non-smokers-2014021983765 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/put-cancer-in-e-ci...
jaunkst 11y ago
I would never go back to smoking cigarettes. There is no comparison to e-cigs and cigarettes, obviously this is backed by the tobacco industry and that is the reason why its not a comparison of cigarettes and e-cigs; which is the real story that wasn't written.
- joslin01 11y ago
  Do you miss the subtler aspects of smoking cigarettes -- the smoke leaving the cigarette, the real fire at the tip, etc?
  - noelsusman 11y ago
    I'm not the other guy, but the answer is yes, absolutely. E-cigarettes are not a full replacement for cigarettes. Like you mentioned a lot of the subtler aspects of cigarettes are completely missing from e-cigarettes. It's a great way to stop smoking, but a lot of people act like you'll pick up an e-cigarette and never think about cigarettes again, which is absolutely untrue. It still takes a concerted effort to not fall off the wagon (I've fallen off twice so far).
desireco42 11y ago
This is a problem when you don't really solve your problem (smoking) but trying to find ways around it. Same thing is happening with diet.
- AlexandrB 11y ago
  That's assuming they think it's a problem. Just because you do doesn't make it so (and I'm a non-smoker, for the record). Edit: If e-cigarettes allow someone to get their nicotine fix without the nasty health effects, all the more power to them.
srameshc 11y ago
I am sure production of Vape juice is totally unregulated. I have heard tales where budding entrepreneurs are starting their own Vape Juice factories. People who just understand a little bit of what goes in are running these production units. All they need is a minimum bulk order and they will label and package as per one's wish. So there are many brands right now that are being sold in stores but no body knows a thing about it, probably not even the guys who runs the manufacturing if those are harmful or not. Bottom line is don't trust the nicely packaged bottles of that harmful liquid. You never know what is inside.
techload 11y ago
I would appreciate if anyone could point me to some good links about e-cigs. I'm interested in switching but know nothing about. Thanks.
- andrewrice 11y ago
  There's a great subreddit that can point you in the right direction: https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/ https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/
ssewell 11y ago
For those are interested in a source of e-juice that doesn't contain Diacetyl or 2,3-Pentanedione, Johnson Creek provides third-party lab test results for many their products. For example: https://d1fardvzz27152.cloudfront.net/skin/frontend/jcosj/beta2/pdfs/Baked%20Apples%20Cert.pdf https://d1fardvzz27152.cloudfront.net/skin/frontend/jcosj/be...

119 points by kevindeasis 11y ago

Nicotine users just can't catch a break. Based on the real subject of the article, diacetyl, I'm surprised the chemical has not been regulated by now. Here is the federal register snippet [0] §184.1278 Diacetyl. (a) Diacetyl (C4H6O2, CAS Reg. No. 431-03-8) is a clear yellow to yellowish green liquid with a strong pungent odor. It is also known as 2,3-butanedione and is chemically synthesized from methyl ethyl ketone. It is miscible in water, glycerin, alcohol, and ether, and in very dilute water solution, it has a typical buttery odor and flavor. (b) The ingredient meets the specifications of the Food Chemicals Codex, 3d Ed. (1981), p. 368, which is incorporated by reference. Copies are available from the National Academy Press, 2101 Constitution Ave. NW., Washington, DC 20418, or available for inspection at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go to: http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_regulations/ibr_locations.html http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_reg.... (c) In accordance with §184.1(b)(1), the ingredient is used in food with no limitation other than current good manufacturing practice. The affirmation of this ingredient as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) as a direct human food ingredient is based upon the following current good manufacturing practice conditions of use: (1) The ingredient is used as a flavoring agent and adjuvant as defined in §170.3(o)(12) of this chapter. (2) The ingredient is used in food at levels not to exceed current good manufacturing practice. (d) Prior sanctions for this ingredient different from the uses established in this section do not exist or have been waived. [48 FR 51907, Nov. 15, 1983] [0] http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5&node=21:3.0.1.1.14#se21.3.184_11278 http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5&node=21:3.0.1....

mrob 11y ago
It's not nicotine users specifically at risk here, because unflavored nicotine liquids are available, as well as flavored zero-nicotine liquids. Flavorings seem like an unnecessary risk to me -- the dangers of diacetyl have been known for several years so it doesn't surprise me that other flavorings can also damage lungs. None of them have anywhere close to the level of safety research as the nicotine or the carrier liquids (propylene glycol or glycerol). Even before this research the risk:benefit ratio for flavorings looked very dubious.
notlisted 11y ago
I'm not clear if you are being sarcastic, but note the GRAS (generally recognized as safe), for ingestion at least...
- mrob 11y ago
  If you ever stand near a typical vaper, you'll notice they use very high concentrations of flavoring. Any food with this much flavoring would probably be considered inedible. I think very strong flavoring is popular to overcome desensitization caused by frequent use.
- binarymax 11y ago
  I am not being sarcastic. That entry hasn't changed in the FR since 1983. "Generally recognized as safe" is out of date and the chemical needs another regulatory review and update.
  - daveguy 11y ago
    FR is a log of all regulations and you are referencing an old GRAS notification. GRAS is valid and up to date FOR INGESTION ONLY. Here is the most current information on GRAS food additives (not pharma additives) from the FDA: http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/ http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/ Here is the inactive ingredients database for approved pharmaceutical additives which depends on route of administration: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm
- daveguy 11y ago
  GRAS is a food additive designation and does apply ONLY to ingestion. The pharmacology of an inhaled substance can be completely different than that of an ingested one. The same goes for intravenous, topical and subcutaneous as well. Just because something is safe for one method of delivery does not mean it is safe for another. GRAS is applicable and continually updated regarding ingestion, but it does NOT apply to inhalation. Edit: side note, the database of additives approved in pharmaceutical products is specific to route of delivery and ,for the US, can be found in the FDA's inactive ingredients database: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/iig/index.Cfm

notlisted 11y ago

In some e-cigarette flavors. Look at the actual study [1] and you'll see the dangers are mainly limited to some buttery/fruity/nutty flavors. The fact that Diacetyl occurs at much higher concentrations in regular cigarettes goes unmentioned. 'Popcorn lung' disease occurred with workers who were exposed to enough Diacetyl vapor in a day as an e-cig 'smoker' would be in a month. Finally, I'll leave the conclusion of the UK Department of Health [2] : "E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco estimates landmark review" As indicated in the second link, the scaremongering of studies such as this one mislead smokers into thinking that e-cigarettes are about as dangerous as regular ones. The dangers are not equivalent, by a long shot. Every smoker that switches to e-cigs, as I did 3 years ago after a 20 year habit and three failed attempts to quit, is much better off. Haven't smoked a 'real' one since. I know at least 50 people with the same experience (anecdotal, I know, but still...). [1] http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/advpub/2015/12/ehp.1510185.acco.pdf http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/advpub/2015/12/e... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-le...

joosters 11y ago
The study does show that some tobacco flavors (which are often described as unflavored) contained diacetyl too, albeit in smaller concentrations.
- notlisted 11y ago
  Noted. Added the word "mainly". I'm not claiming that Diacetyl should be in e-cigarettes to begin with, but that the headline and recommendations of the need to be viewed with additional scrutiny and in context. As with all unhealthy components dosage matters and risks should be presented accordingly. PS There have been other studies into Diacetyl in e-cigarettes in the past. This sourced article contains a few more pointers http://blog.mtbakervapor.com/the-truth-about-diacetyl/ http://blog.mtbakervapor.com/the-truth-about-diacetyl/
  - joosters 11y ago

noxToken 11y ago

Quoting directly from Reddit [1]: >Oh boy, time to crosspost for information's sake. >Even diactyl containing e-juice still contains 100x less diacetyl than traditional cigarettes. [Citation: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tox.20153/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tox.20153/pdf ] And no smoker to date has ever gotten "Popcorn Lung" (Named because it occurs years after dumping pure uncut diactyl into vats and bins when making cheapo microwave popcorn in the factories.) >And despite all that- It's still largely the other factors and chemicals and tar and actual combustion that damages your lungs when smoking is involved. Not diacetyl specifically. >Even 100x the amount of diacetyl as e-juice is apparently not enough to cause the "Popcorn Lung" issue related to the compound specifically. So why would 100x less than the amount that does not cause it suddenly start to cause it? Not that it's 100 percent safe (As mentioned by a replier as well- So I have appended my post some for accuracy and fairness.) Just that it's not the immediate or unavoidable threat it's being presented as. >And in the span of 7+ years even in the heaviest vape users no one has (yet, mind. For the sake of fairness and caution.) reported any major health issues tied to vaping or the compounds contained in e-juice. If the 75ml a day heavy diactyl juice user doesn't get popcorn lung then I highly doubt popcorn lung is a problem to watch for regarding it. >Also there are many many e-juices available without diactyl. So even if it was an issue you can actively avoid it. And most manufacturers have discontinued it's use or clearely state if their juices are diacetyl free so the risk factors that are purely tied to diacetyl are avoidable and preventable. >As far as being paranoid about what's put in it- This is purely my opinion but, I think that is razorblades in your kid's halloween candy or "Shadey people handing out drugs for free/Lacing your kid's flintstones vitamins with PCP" levels of unfounded overconcern. >Caution is important- But so is research and fact checking. >Edit: To append this to- I am not defending the use or previous use of the substance, merely dispelling the immediate "Popcorn Lung" panic around it. I personally don't use e-juice containing it for the sake of risk reduction in general as I like to limit as many potential factors as possible in general. And there are hundreds- if not thousands of brands and types which do not contain diacetyl to choose from which I would recommend. >I am also not claiming vaping is 100 percent safe- Just that this instance is an avoidable factor and has been for a while. >Personal safety and active research should always be practiced in all facets of life. [1] https://np.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vxbzo/chemical_flavorings_found_in_ecigarettes_linked/cxrq6ro https://np.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3vxbzo/chemical_fla... Edit: For the record, that is not my Reddit post. I found it to be very informative, so I thought I'd share it with the HN community. Please respect Reddit's no brigading policy - for both upvoting and downvoting posts.

gabemart 11y ago

Additional comments on post from 14 hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10700914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10700914

sneak 11y ago

It is important to note that the levels of these chemicals in the vapor from vaporizers is 50-100x lower than found in traditional, "analog" cigarettes.

m_eiman 11y ago
Why is that important? What might be important is whether the level of chemicals is high enough to pose a risk, not if something else is worse.
- kristofferR 11y ago
  Because a lot of people are going to keep smoking cigarettes because ecigs "Cause lung cancer too".
- notlisted 11y ago
  I would say this context is important to weigh the dangers of analog vs digital. The 'popcorn lung' issue doesn't present itself with smokers of analog cigarettes, with higher concentrations of the same bad stuff, so why would anyone mention it in the context of digital cigarettes, unless it's scientific click-bait prepared for unscientific journalists looking for an article.
- frozenport 11y ago
  Not clear why you are being downvoted. Many people start smoking with e-cigs. These are people who otherwise wouldn't smoke.
  - mistermann 11y ago
    > Many people start smoking with e-cigs Are you saying: Nothing > ecigs > regular cigarettes? If so, could you provide a citation for that claim?
    - e1ven 11y ago
      I don't smoke - I never have. I've personally considered taking up ecigs on several occasions. I haven't done so because the ingredients in the fluid flavorings are so oddly unregulated - You end up with weird things which really aren't safe to be heated and inhaled. If I had confidence that there was sufficient oversight, such that they were only moderately dangerous, not "close our eyes, and hope for the best", I'd likely start using the devices.

EliRivers 11y ago

Life imitates art :) http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/put-cancer-in-e-cigarettes-say-non-smokers-2014021983765 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/put-cancer-in-e-ci...

jaunkst 11y ago

I would never go back to smoking cigarettes. There is no comparison to e-cigs and cigarettes, obviously this is backed by the tobacco industry and that is the reason why its not a comparison of cigarettes and e-cigs; which is the real story that wasn't written.

joslin01 11y ago
Do you miss the subtler aspects of smoking cigarettes -- the smoke leaving the cigarette, the real fire at the tip, etc?
- noelsusman 11y ago
  I'm not the other guy, but the answer is yes, absolutely. E-cigarettes are not a full replacement for cigarettes. Like you mentioned a lot of the subtler aspects of cigarettes are completely missing from e-cigarettes. It's a great way to stop smoking, but a lot of people act like you'll pick up an e-cigarette and never think about cigarettes again, which is absolutely untrue. It still takes a concerted effort to not fall off the wagon (I've fallen off twice so far).

desireco42 11y ago

This is a problem when you don't really solve your problem (smoking) but trying to find ways around it. Same thing is happening with diet.

AlexandrB 11y ago
That's assuming they think it's a problem. Just because you do doesn't make it so (and I'm a non-smoker, for the record). Edit: If e-cigarettes allow someone to get their nicotine fix without the nasty health effects, all the more power to them.

srameshc 11y ago

I am sure production of Vape juice is totally unregulated. I have heard tales where budding entrepreneurs are starting their own Vape Juice factories. People who just understand a little bit of what goes in are running these production units. All they need is a minimum bulk order and they will label and package as per one's wish. So there are many brands right now that are being sold in stores but no body knows a thing about it, probably not even the guys who runs the manufacturing if those are harmful or not. Bottom line is don't trust the nicely packaged bottles of that harmful liquid. You never know what is inside.

techload 11y ago

I would appreciate if anyone could point me to some good links about e-cigs. I'm interested in switching but know nothing about. Thanks.

andrewrice 11y ago
There's a great subreddit that can point you in the right direction: https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/ https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/

ssewell 11y ago

For those are interested in a source of e-juice that doesn't contain Diacetyl or 2,3-Pentanedione, Johnson Creek provides third-party lab test results for many their products. For example: https://d1fardvzz27152.cloudfront.net/skin/frontend/jcosj/beta2/pdfs/Baked%20Apples%20Cert.pdf https://d1fardvzz27152.cloudfront.net/skin/frontend/jcosj/be...