4 ms·

There are plenty of small "mom & pop" sites out there that store full credit card info, in plain text, in unsecured databases, in blatant disregard of card comp

There are plenty of small "mom & pop" sites out there that store full credit card info, in plain text, in unsecured databases, in blatant disregard of card company policies. They go with the thinking that it costs to much to implement security and nothing will ever happen to us. We hear about the big breaches on the news, but I would bet for every big breach we hear about on the news there are thousands of smaller breaches that don't get recognized. For example, about two years ago I had a property management company ask me to build out a site to handle rent payments for them. They wanted to store and have access to the full credit card numbers to manually process transactions for failed or late payments. When I told them they were not allowed to do that they terminated the contract with me. I know they went on to hire a developer to build out a site for them and store credit card numbers. While I don't know if they are still doing it, it did happen for an extensive period of time.

washadjeffmad 11y ago
That was also the case for a number of ACH portal softwares sold alongside retail POS suites in the 2000s. Instead of temporary storage until batching, full transaction details were held permanently by default. At any time, anyone with access to a payment terminal who knew where to look could process transactions manually from these records. They could have double charged and skimmed, done reversals for a cut, or copied and sold customer profiles with CC numbers. These were BSA products marketed to small and medium sized businesses, so no one questioned compliance.
sbov 11y ago
I prefer to put consequences in terms of money. That said, on the flip side, because of things like "Dual Control" the PCI DSS is physically impossible for some small companies to abide by. In the past we dealt with credit cards and had a few audits, and they admitted that many of the points are aimed at companies that don't consist of just two people. Also, look at it from their POV. In a normal course of business a lot of these mom and pops probably already are storing credit card information on paper and/or in word documents. So you're saying the system you build for them is going to be, in some ways, less useful than their current ad-hoc system. My mom & pop tax guy emails me my tax return as an encrypted pdf, with the password being... the last 4 digits of my SSN.
- jeffmould 11y ago
  Oh there is no question if you bring paper records in to the mix there are enormous opportunities. I worked at a mom & pop restaurant for several years. In the attic of the restaurant were stacks of boxes with credit card receipts dating back to the mid-80s at least. While the chances of many of these cards being valid now are significantly reduced, there is always that slight chance. I have a credit card from the early 90s that the number has not changed (kind of nice in a way as I can recite the number by memory now). On the flip side though, to some extent, I would consider these records safer than a website. At least to gain access to these records you would have to physically enter the building, climb in the attic, sift through hundreds of boxes, gather the info you want, and then leave. This would also require you be in the general location of the building and have knowledge of the records being there. Hacking a website database from across the globe is a whole lot easier, so you I would say that their existing paper system is more secure to a degree.

washadjeffmad 11y ago

That was also the case for a number of ACH portal softwares sold alongside retail POS suites in the 2000s. Instead of temporary storage until batching, full transaction details were held permanently by default. At any time, anyone with access to a payment terminal who knew where to look could process transactions manually from these records. They could have double charged and skimmed, done reversals for a cut, or copied and sold customer profiles with CC numbers. These were BSA products marketed to small and medium sized businesses, so no one questioned compliance.

sbov 11y ago

I prefer to put consequences in terms of money. That said, on the flip side, because of things like "Dual Control" the PCI DSS is physically impossible for some small companies to abide by. In the past we dealt with credit cards and had a few audits, and they admitted that many of the points are aimed at companies that don't consist of just two people. Also, look at it from their POV. In a normal course of business a lot of these mom and pops probably already are storing credit card information on paper and/or in word documents. So you're saying the system you build for them is going to be, in some ways, less useful than their current ad-hoc system. My mom & pop tax guy emails me my tax return as an encrypted pdf, with the password being... the last 4 digits of my SSN.

jeffmould 11y ago
Oh there is no question if you bring paper records in to the mix there are enormous opportunities. I worked at a mom & pop restaurant for several years. In the attic of the restaurant were stacks of boxes with credit card receipts dating back to the mid-80s at least. While the chances of many of these cards being valid now are significantly reduced, there is always that slight chance. I have a credit card from the early 90s that the number has not changed (kind of nice in a way as I can recite the number by memory now). On the flip side though, to some extent, I would consider these records safer than a website. At least to gain access to these records you would have to physically enter the building, climb in the attic, sift through hundreds of boxes, gather the info you want, and then leave. This would also require you be in the general location of the building and have knowledge of the records being there. Hacking a website database from across the globe is a whole lot easier, so you I would say that their existing paper system is more secure to a degree.