7 ms·

Aren't there self-hosted analytics anyway? Piwik[1] comes to mind first, but I'm sure there are many. 1. https://piwik.org/ https://piwik.org/

by rplnt 11y ago

Albright 11y ago
Unsurprisingly, Wikipedia has a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_analytics_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_analytics_software
- nateguchi 11y ago
  Who makes these lists?!
  - blowski 11y ago
    Well you can see the list of users here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_web_analytics_software&action=history https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_web_analy...
  - bencollier49 11y ago
    Good question! Probably the vendors of the software concerned. Perhaps it started out as a list of three with a major bias towards a particular product. And then the competitors responded, moderators did their things and eventually an accurate list was evolved.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  Strangely Microsoft's one is missing: Application Insights. Pretty much works like Google Analytics but utilises both client JavaScript and embedded runtime code to generate a richer picture of what is going on. Too bad the interface on the Azure Portal is terrible. They spent too much time making it look fancy, and not enough time getting the 101s of usability right (which is a criticism I'd lay at the feed of the new Azure portal in general).
- tux3 11y ago
  Wikipedia's love of lists is absolutely amazing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists
  - rqebmm 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_list_of_lists_of_lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_list_of_lists_of_lists
billmalarky 11y ago
Piwik is incredible. But it should be noted that it does provide a scaling challenge for high traffic use cases (> hundred million actions per month), and hosting your own analytics is expensive. I bring this up because people had been slamming moot for using GA on 4chan instead of piwik without understanding why.
- wishinghand 11y ago
  Do any of the Google Analytics alternatives scale to that size?
  - rbinv 11y ago
    Free alternatives? Not really. Paid? Yes, SiteCatalyst and Webtrekk come to mind. People seem to ignore that the tracking JavaScript is not what you're paying for. It's the backend + servers.
  - billmalarky 11y ago
    People have taken piwik to 300MM up to over 1 billion actions per month. But it certainly isn't "set it and forget it." http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database-usage/3614/71 http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database...
- bjelkeman-again 11y ago
  We have much lower traffic than that and our Piwik servers, with paid support from the Piwik team, often struggles to generate reports etc. Not convinced Piwik is that easy to scale.
  - billmalarky 11y ago
    People have scaled it to over a billion actions per month. No clue how much of that includes customizations though... It sounds way past the out of box limit. Look at the comments from sandfox and afterlastangel in this thread. afterlastangel is pushing a billion, sandfox is around 300 MM per month. http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database-usage/3614/71 http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database...
vermontdevil 11y ago
Does the adblock/ublock etc block this as well? Am looking to use this in lieu of Google Analytics.
- jdmichal 11y ago
  Self-hosted means that it will be served from your own servers, and thereby your own domain. So unless your domain is on a block list, it will be loaded. EDIT: Sorry, I've been dealing with uBlock Matrix for too long, and forgot how advanced the other blockers pattern matching is. See the many responses to this for better information.
  - jrgv 11y ago
    The EasyPrivacy block list contains an entry that will block the piwik.js file. Of course, when you're self-hosting, it's trivial to serve that file with a non-default name.
    - jdmichal 11y ago
      That's an interesting choice. I mean, it's not like you can hide from the web server that you are making the request. But then again, I'm assuming -- by the sheer necessity of having a JS file -- that they are collecting some additional metrics not available to the server in the request.
      - Paul-ish 11y ago
        Those filters could be in place to block the Piwik cloud service: https://piwik.pro/cloud/?pk_source=Piwik.org&pk_medium=Cloud_CTA_link&pk_campaign=PO_Cloud_Learn_More https://piwik.pro/cloud/?pk_source=Piwik.org&pk_medium=Cloud...
  - username223 11y ago
    It will probably take awhile, but trackers will move to aggregating log files, and blockers will move to TOR. And the arms race continues...
sarciszewski 11y ago
See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10697045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10697045 Piwik is still using (unsalted) MD5 for passwords in 2015, and probably will still be using unsalted MD5 in 2016.
- etjossem 11y ago
  This is pretty bad. Piwik could be a high value target depending on the nature of the site it is used to analyze. I can't believe unsalted MD5 is "by design" (https://github.com/piwik/piwik/issues/8753 https://github.com/piwik/piwik/issues/8753).
  - sarciszewski 11y ago
    https://theintercept.com/2014/02/18/snowden-docs-reveal-covert-surveillance-and-pressure-tactics-aimed-at-wikileaks-and-its-supporters/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/18/snowden-docs-reveal-cove... Considering Piwik is used by the GCHQ, I find it hilarious.
    - Someone1234 11y ago
      They're using an open source analytics software package to analyse the very data it was designed to analyse. I don't find it using poorly implemented hashing in the administrative interface to be at all relevant to what they're doing, or why they shouldn't be using it.
      - etjossem 11y ago
        Information on who visits WikiLeaks - and what they read and upload - is an incredibly high value target. I don't see how you can argue otherwise, when Britain's top intel agency has an expensive line item in their budget just to get at that info. Given these known security flaws, it's not a stretch to assume anyone who can see the GCHQ's Piwik server can have that data too, regardless of whether they are authorized. See below for a small preview of what an attacker could exfiltrate (dissident IPs redacted for a reason): https://firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/02/piwik2.png https://firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/02/piwik2.png While we're talking about poor security practices: the privileged username in the screenshot is apparently still the default ("admin"), so I hope the password isn't still "changeMe" ... http://piwik.org/faq/how-to/faq_191/ http://piwik.org/faq/how-to/faq_191/

Aren't there self-hosted analytics anyway? Piwik[1] comes to mind first, but I'm sure there are many. 1. https://piwik.org/ https://piwik.org/

by rplnt 11y ago

Aren't there self-hosted analytics anyway? Piwik[1] comes to mind first, but I'm sure there are many. 1. https://piwik.org/ https://piwik.org/

Albright 11y ago

Unsurprisingly, Wikipedia has a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_analytics_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_analytics_software

nateguchi 11y ago
Who makes these lists?!
- blowski 11y ago
  Well you can see the list of users here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_web_analytics_software&action=history https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_web_analy...
- bencollier49 11y ago
  Good question! Probably the vendors of the software concerned. Perhaps it started out as a list of three with a major bias towards a particular product. And then the competitors responded, moderators did their things and eventually an accurate list was evolved.
Someone1234 11y ago
Strangely Microsoft's one is missing: Application Insights. Pretty much works like Google Analytics but utilises both client JavaScript and embedded runtime code to generate a richer picture of what is going on. Too bad the interface on the Azure Portal is terrible. They spent too much time making it look fancy, and not enough time getting the 101s of usability right (which is a criticism I'd lay at the feed of the new Azure portal in general).
tux3 11y ago
Wikipedia's love of lists is absolutely amazing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists
- rqebmm 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_list_of_lists_of_lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_list_of_lists_of_lists

billmalarky 11y ago

Piwik is incredible. But it should be noted that it does provide a scaling challenge for high traffic use cases (> hundred million actions per month), and hosting your own analytics is expensive. I bring this up because people had been slamming moot for using GA on 4chan instead of piwik without understanding why.

wishinghand 11y ago
Do any of the Google Analytics alternatives scale to that size?
- rbinv 11y ago
  Free alternatives? Not really. Paid? Yes, SiteCatalyst and Webtrekk come to mind. People seem to ignore that the tracking JavaScript is not what you're paying for. It's the backend + servers.
- billmalarky 11y ago
  People have taken piwik to 300MM up to over 1 billion actions per month. But it certainly isn't "set it and forget it." http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database-usage/3614/71 http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database...
bjelkeman-again 11y ago
We have much lower traffic than that and our Piwik servers, with paid support from the Piwik team, often struggles to generate reports etc. Not convinced Piwik is that easy to scale.
- billmalarky 11y ago
  People have scaled it to over a billion actions per month. No clue how much of that includes customizations though... It sounds way past the out of box limit. Look at the comments from sandfox and afterlastangel in this thread. afterlastangel is pushing a billion, sandfox is around 300 MM per month. http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database-usage/3614/71 http://forum.piwik.org/t/high-traffic-piwik-servers-database...

vermontdevil 11y ago

Does the adblock/ublock etc block this as well? Am looking to use this in lieu of Google Analytics.

jdmichal 11y ago
Self-hosted means that it will be served from your own servers, and thereby your own domain. So unless your domain is on a block list, it will be loaded. EDIT: Sorry, I've been dealing with uBlock Matrix for too long, and forgot how advanced the other blockers pattern matching is. See the many responses to this for better information.
- jrgv 11y ago
  The EasyPrivacy block list contains an entry that will block the piwik.js file. Of course, when you're self-hosting, it's trivial to serve that file with a non-default name.
  - jdmichal 11y ago
    That's an interesting choice. I mean, it's not like you can hide from the web server that you are making the request. But then again, I'm assuming -- by the sheer necessity of having a JS file -- that they are collecting some additional metrics not available to the server in the request.
    - Paul-ish 11y ago
      Those filters could be in place to block the Piwik cloud service: https://piwik.pro/cloud/?pk_source=Piwik.org&pk_medium=Cloud_CTA_link&pk_campaign=PO_Cloud_Learn_More https://piwik.pro/cloud/?pk_source=Piwik.org&pk_medium=Cloud...
- username223 11y ago
  It will probably take awhile, but trackers will move to aggregating log files, and blockers will move to TOR. And the arms race continues...

sarciszewski 11y ago

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10697045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10697045 Piwik is still using (unsalted) MD5 for passwords in 2015, and probably will still be using unsalted MD5 in 2016.

etjossem 11y ago
This is pretty bad. Piwik could be a high value target depending on the nature of the site it is used to analyze. I can't believe unsalted MD5 is "by design" (https://github.com/piwik/piwik/issues/8753 https://github.com/piwik/piwik/issues/8753).
- sarciszewski 11y ago
  https://theintercept.com/2014/02/18/snowden-docs-reveal-covert-surveillance-and-pressure-tactics-aimed-at-wikileaks-and-its-supporters/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/18/snowden-docs-reveal-cove... Considering Piwik is used by the GCHQ, I find it hilarious.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    They're using an open source analytics software package to analyse the very data it was designed to analyse. I don't find it using poorly implemented hashing in the administrative interface to be at all relevant to what they're doing, or why they shouldn't be using it.
    - etjossem 11y ago
      Information on who visits WikiLeaks - and what they read and upload - is an incredibly high value target. I don't see how you can argue otherwise, when Britain's top intel agency has an expensive line item in their budget just to get at that info. Given these known security flaws, it's not a stretch to assume anyone who can see the GCHQ's Piwik server can have that data too, regardless of whether they are authorized. See below for a small preview of what an attacker could exfiltrate (dissident IPs redacted for a reason): https://firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/02/piwik2.png https://firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/02/piwik2.png While we're talking about poor security practices: the privileged username in the screenshot is apparently still the default ("admin"), so I hope the password isn't still "changeMe" ... http://piwik.org/faq/how-to/faq_191/ http://piwik.org/faq/how-to/faq_191/