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I'm surprised there aren't more reports of honey-pot use, particularly with how easily it is to derive a behavioral patterns of terrorist propagandists. Such h

by ihsw 11y ago

I'm surprised there aren't more reports of honey-pot use, particularly with how easily it is to derive a behavioral patterns of terrorist propagandists. Such honey-pots would no doubt catch false-positives but it is a known effective means of reconnaissance and sabotage, considering how aggressively and thoroughly they are connected to social media. Recently Isil issued a warning to all social media propagandists to be safe and vigilant in their online activities (eg: do not use personally identifiable information, use VPNs or Tor, etc), so it stands to reason that their online network and social network is under active attack. The article cites honey-pot use as one of the reasons that Isil continues to have a persistent online presence, but is it really that prevalent? There are so many things we can do to combat their online war campaign that doesn't involve poking tech firms to open up encryption or open up private access channels for law enforcement, and honestly I think the various governments aren't being forthcoming or cooperative in their online adversarial campaigns. One could even say they're being obstructionist or obtuse, with one-sided demands rather than a progressive partnership. Where are our NSA pundits? Are they too busy with economic espionage against their patrons' opponents? Does the MSM really have nothing further to add other than "tech firms are lazy"?

talmand 11y ago
The purposes of getting tech firms to open up encryption or private access channels is not for fighting the online shenanigans of alleged terrorists.
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  Right! They already know who they all are anyway, because they are paying them. ISIS is their pet project to convince us to ban encryption so they can spy on you and me, that's what they really care about! ... /s
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - RobertoG 11y ago
    Well.. I don't think what your sarcasm comment state is literary what is happening but there is some true there. ISIS is the result of the mess created by the western governments (special mention to the EUA) and the tolerance to those that actively promoted them (wink Saudi Arabia). At the same time, terrorist attacks have been used to promote actions that have nothing to do with it (Irak invasion for instance). If commentators less informed that you and me, see it like a conspiracy, can we really blame them?
    - mc32 11y ago
      This "movement" didn't exist in the consciousness of the middle east till Afghanistan went to AQ who were keen to reintroduce medieval religion into modern day. It's a manufactured conflict by ideologues bent on creating their own world order. It's not a popular reaction to western oppression, etc. It affects regions unaffiliated with the west. In Africa it wants to destabilize native African governments in central Asia it wants to destabilize areas and become part of a larger pannational movement. The west is just a nice useful excuse ready to use excuse.
      - RobertoG 11y ago
        ISIS can only exist in a physical space, because their raison d'etre is a caliphate. For the existence of this physical space was necessary the removing of the previous controlling power of that physical space. Who did that? Al Qaeda used Afghanistan as base of operations, but they are foreigners there. The Talibans and Al qaeda are different animals. Al Qaeda has its origins in Arabian Saudi. The family Bin Laden is well situated there and, by the way, has strong connections with the family Bush business. The Talibans have their origins in the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the dirty war of the CIA there. Of course all those groups of people are adults and responsible of their actions, but to say that "the west is just a nice useful excuse" is just a very nice convenient excuse.
        mc32 11y ago
        The west helped to establish the history necessary upon which to hang a "cause", but these groups happened to be there and events unfolded such that it presented a nice pretext and a medieval interpretation of the scripture is but a vehicle. It could be David Koresh in a place with a governmental vacuum and ardent followers. People and movements like that can take advantage of historical circumstance where others don't dare. In other words there are places with worse history and oppression which haven't taken advantage of circumstance to establish some kind of new world order, in this case based on medieval religious interpretation. For example, do you see dalits revolting and turning things over to seek redress from centuries of oppression? Someone could set-up a narrative, there is a history they can readily use, but there isn't a movement taking that grim path.
  - talmand 11y ago
    No, that's crazy talk and I'm sure you know it. It's simply not letting a crisis go to waste.
zeveb 11y ago
> Such honey-pots would no doubt catch false-positives but it is a known effective means of reconnaissance and sabotage, considering how aggressively and thoroughly they are connected to social media. The less mature sort of civil libertarian (I consider myself the mature sort of civil libertarian) would no doubt oppose honey pots. Can't you imagine it now? 'The government has been running a secret program to entrap people!' > Where are our NSA pundits? Are they too busy with economic espionage against their patrons' opponents? NSA's job is not economic espionage, and NSA does not often take public stances. It does its job quietly; if it has ideas for how it could contribute to the fight against ISIL, then it would probably not bandy them about the media.
- pjc50 11y ago
  There has been a bad record of FBI entrapment programs where they provided the radicalisation, the organisational structure, and even the guns or explosives to people who might not have come into contact with actual terrorist groups. https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/ https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-te...
knughit 11y ago
I thought NSA pretty much owned the TOR egress nodes. TOR is a honeypot.

by ihsw 11y ago

talmand 11y ago

The purposes of getting tech firms to open up encryption or private access channels is not for fighting the online shenanigans of alleged terrorists.

sliverstorm 11y ago
Right! They already know who they all are anyway, because they are paying them. ISIS is their pet project to convince us to ban encryption so they can spy on you and me, that's what they really care about! ... /s
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- RobertoG 11y ago
  Well.. I don't think what your sarcasm comment state is literary what is happening but there is some true there. ISIS is the result of the mess created by the western governments (special mention to the EUA) and the tolerance to those that actively promoted them (wink Saudi Arabia). At the same time, terrorist attacks have been used to promote actions that have nothing to do with it (Irak invasion for instance). If commentators less informed that you and me, see it like a conspiracy, can we really blame them?
  - mc32 11y ago
    This "movement" didn't exist in the consciousness of the middle east till Afghanistan went to AQ who were keen to reintroduce medieval religion into modern day. It's a manufactured conflict by ideologues bent on creating their own world order. It's not a popular reaction to western oppression, etc. It affects regions unaffiliated with the west. In Africa it wants to destabilize native African governments in central Asia it wants to destabilize areas and become part of a larger pannational movement. The west is just a nice useful excuse ready to use excuse.
    - RobertoG 11y ago
      ISIS can only exist in a physical space, because their raison d'etre is a caliphate. For the existence of this physical space was necessary the removing of the previous controlling power of that physical space. Who did that? Al Qaeda used Afghanistan as base of operations, but they are foreigners there. The Talibans and Al qaeda are different animals. Al Qaeda has its origins in Arabian Saudi. The family Bin Laden is well situated there and, by the way, has strong connections with the family Bush business. The Talibans have their origins in the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the dirty war of the CIA there. Of course all those groups of people are adults and responsible of their actions, but to say that "the west is just a nice useful excuse" is just a very nice convenient excuse.
      - mc32 11y ago
        The west helped to establish the history necessary upon which to hang a "cause", but these groups happened to be there and events unfolded such that it presented a nice pretext and a medieval interpretation of the scripture is but a vehicle. It could be David Koresh in a place with a governmental vacuum and ardent followers. People and movements like that can take advantage of historical circumstance where others don't dare. In other words there are places with worse history and oppression which haven't taken advantage of circumstance to establish some kind of new world order, in this case based on medieval religious interpretation. For example, do you see dalits revolting and turning things over to seek redress from centuries of oppression? Someone could set-up a narrative, there is a history they can readily use, but there isn't a movement taking that grim path.
- talmand 11y ago
  No, that's crazy talk and I'm sure you know it. It's simply not letting a crisis go to waste.

zeveb 11y ago

> Such honey-pots would no doubt catch false-positives but it is a known effective means of reconnaissance and sabotage, considering how aggressively and thoroughly they are connected to social media. The less mature sort of civil libertarian (I consider myself the mature sort of civil libertarian) would no doubt oppose honey pots. Can't you imagine it now? 'The government has been running a secret program to entrap people!' > Where are our NSA pundits? Are they too busy with economic espionage against their patrons' opponents? NSA's job is not economic espionage, and NSA does not often take public stances. It does its job quietly; if it has ideas for how it could contribute to the fight against ISIL, then it would probably not bandy them about the media.

pjc50 11y ago
There has been a bad record of FBI entrapment programs where they provided the radicalisation, the organisational structure, and even the guns or explosives to people who might not have come into contact with actual terrorist groups. https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/ https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-te...

knughit 11y ago

I thought NSA pretty much owned the TOR egress nodes. TOR is a honeypot.