7 ms·

I think it's a question of barriers. You can't charge tens of thousands (often totaling hundreds of thousands) of dollars and many years for a professional degr

by m52go 11y ago

I think it's a question of barriers. You can't charge tens of thousands (often totaling hundreds of thousands) of dollars and many years for a professional degree and expect folks to buy it over other options that cost far less time and far less money. I'm not saying coding bootcamps are panacean, but hiring does occur at such places and their cost (again, in terms of time & money) is a fraction of the cost of traditional professional education. Professional education will need to adapt. I've heard of disaster-prone areas producing doctors in a matter of weeks. I don't want to be treated by a doctor who only has 8 weeks of training, but I don't think it's a bad start to a more, immersive, apprenticeship-based program that allows candidates to earn decent money while learning the full profession.

iamcurious 11y ago
Do you have links for the 8 week doctors? Thanks in advance.
- Avshalom 11y ago
  While I have no idea if OP was being hyperbolic, EMS level 3 could be shoved into 8 weeks if you were motivated, its only like 20 credit hours plus practical field work.
  - m52go 11y ago
    Not intentionally. I can't find the source right now, but I recall an article mentioning medical practitioners being trained for massive natural disasters (e.g., Haiti) in a matter of weeks. Obviously these people were trained to perform a very narrow range of tasks, not unlike a coding bootcamp student would learn Rails and be virtually ineffective with just about anything else. Even the article conceded these practitioners weren't ready to be full-time doctors, but the point was that they could do something in the field without years and years of formal education..
    - Jtsummers 11y ago
      In more common terms, they'd be medics. That's a bit broad, as some medics are far more capable than others, but for those who are primarily intended to provide first aid (rather than long term care or surgery or diagnostics), they're typically called medics. And 8 weeks is enough time to train someone in the basics of that field (especially 8 weeks of full-time training).
- ape4 11y ago
  Just drop into some country with Ebola.
Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
>I don't want to be treated by a doctor who only has 8 weeks of training, but I don't think it's a bad start to a more, immersive, apprenticeship-based program that allows candidates to earn decent money while learning the full profession. I think we need multiple grades of doctor. Even something as simple as being able to stitch up a wound is useful and could lead to positive health outcomes for those who couldn't otherwise afford a trip to the doctor. Better to get some healthcare than have all doctors be the best possible, but inaccessible to the masses. I'd liken it to gas stations that also have small garages that can change your oil and top off your fluids. You'd probably never want to have them replace your transmission, but oil changes alone are in high enough demand that I'm sure they make up a good portion of all visits to mechanics. I'm guessing that a similar situation exists with doctors; physicals, vaccines, and a handful of common diseases (like colds) probably make up a sizable percentage of visits. There's a market for someone who can just handle these cases and pass them off to the higher grade doctor when the need arises. To an extent we have this in the form of various grades of nurses and the dazzling array of specialists that now exist, but it's not quite there yet.
- dagw 11y ago
  I think we need multiple grades of doctor. Isn't that where nurses come in?
  - cm2012 11y ago
    It's pretty much impossible to just book an appointment with a nurse right now in the US.
    - rch 11y ago
      I booked an appointment with a doctor for basic allergies (Houston), and ended up seeing some version of nurse instead. It worked well, and I didn't have to wait weeks and weeks for the appointment.
    - dagw 11y ago
      Then I think I see a pretty simple fix...
SilasX 11y ago
1) Start a major world war. 2) Find out the (new) standards the military sets for someone to fill the functional role of a full-fledged doctor. Boom, there's your "MVP doctor" program. I'm joking, but there almost certainly a ton of fat that can be trimmed from the training we expect out of that title, and it's probably just a matter of motivation. There shouldn't be that big a difference between our current standard for "doctor" vs the one the military comes up with in that example.

by m52go 11y ago

iamcurious 11y ago

Do you have links for the 8 week doctors? Thanks in advance.

Avshalom 11y ago
While I have no idea if OP was being hyperbolic, EMS level 3 could be shoved into 8 weeks if you were motivated, its only like 20 credit hours plus practical field work.
- m52go 11y ago
  Not intentionally. I can't find the source right now, but I recall an article mentioning medical practitioners being trained for massive natural disasters (e.g., Haiti) in a matter of weeks. Obviously these people were trained to perform a very narrow range of tasks, not unlike a coding bootcamp student would learn Rails and be virtually ineffective with just about anything else. Even the article conceded these practitioners weren't ready to be full-time doctors, but the point was that they could do something in the field without years and years of formal education..
  - Jtsummers 11y ago
    In more common terms, they'd be medics. That's a bit broad, as some medics are far more capable than others, but for those who are primarily intended to provide first aid (rather than long term care or surgery or diagnostics), they're typically called medics. And 8 weeks is enough time to train someone in the basics of that field (especially 8 weeks of full-time training).
ape4 11y ago
Just drop into some country with Ebola.

Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago

>I don't want to be treated by a doctor who only has 8 weeks of training, but I don't think it's a bad start to a more, immersive, apprenticeship-based program that allows candidates to earn decent money while learning the full profession. I think we need multiple grades of doctor. Even something as simple as being able to stitch up a wound is useful and could lead to positive health outcomes for those who couldn't otherwise afford a trip to the doctor. Better to get some healthcare than have all doctors be the best possible, but inaccessible to the masses. I'd liken it to gas stations that also have small garages that can change your oil and top off your fluids. You'd probably never want to have them replace your transmission, but oil changes alone are in high enough demand that I'm sure they make up a good portion of all visits to mechanics. I'm guessing that a similar situation exists with doctors; physicals, vaccines, and a handful of common diseases (like colds) probably make up a sizable percentage of visits. There's a market for someone who can just handle these cases and pass them off to the higher grade doctor when the need arises. To an extent we have this in the form of various grades of nurses and the dazzling array of specialists that now exist, but it's not quite there yet.

dagw 11y ago
I think we need multiple grades of doctor. Isn't that where nurses come in?
- cm2012 11y ago
  It's pretty much impossible to just book an appointment with a nurse right now in the US.
  - rch 11y ago
    I booked an appointment with a doctor for basic allergies (Houston), and ended up seeing some version of nurse instead. It worked well, and I didn't have to wait weeks and weeks for the appointment.
  - dagw 11y ago
    Then I think I see a pretty simple fix...

SilasX 11y ago

1) Start a major world war. 2) Find out the (new) standards the military sets for someone to fill the functional role of a full-fledged doctor. Boom, there's your "MVP doctor" program. I'm joking, but there almost certainly a ton of fat that can be trimmed from the training we expect out of that title, and it's probably just a matter of motivation. There shouldn't be that big a difference between our current standard for "doctor" vs the one the military comes up with in that example.